Law Firm in the Metaverse Scott C. Pappas Is Redefining How Law Firms Operate (Ep. 119)
Are you ready to reimagine your law firm in ways that foster real well-being, boost profitability, and future-proof your business? In a recent episode of The Lawyer Millionaire Podcast, we sat down with Scott C. Pappas, Managing Partner of the groundbreaking Omnus Law, to discuss exactly how he’s rewriting the rules of law firm management—by bringing his firm directly into the metaverse.
The result? Increased attorney satisfaction, higher productivity, and a culture that attracts top talent. Let’s break down the key lessons you can apply to your own practice.
The Problem with Traditional Law Firms
Most law firm owners are all too familiar with the old story: long hours, office mandates, and a culture of personal sacrifice. The traditional firm model often drains attorneys more than it fulfills them and leads to burnout, turnover, and reduced long-term profitability.
Scott described his own journey from Big Law to boutique practice, sharing how even top-ranked firms tend to perpetuate a grind that threatens not just lawyer well-being, but client value.
The Attorney-First Philosophy: A New Model for Law Firms
After decades in the industry, Scott and his colleagues decided there had to be a better way. Omnus Law was built from the ground up with a mission that puts the attorney experience front and center. At Omnus, it’s not just about compensation—it's about real fulfillment, balance, and building practices that empower lawyers to thrive both in and outside the office.
Key features of this attorney-first approach:
No Billable Hour Requirements: Attorneys are trusted professionals whose worth isn’t measured only in hours tracked.
Real Autonomy: Lawyers have flexibility in where and how they work, without micromanagement or unnecessary face time.
Cutting-Edge Support: From centralized back-office operations to robust administrative support, attorneys can focus on practicing law and growing their businesses.
Leveraging the Metaverse: More Than Remote Work
What truly sets Omnus Law apart is its adoption of a fully immersive, virtual Metaverse office—the Omnusverse. But unlike many virtual setups, Omnus’s system is designed for meaningful connection and collaboration, not just transaction.
Intuitive Virtual Campus: No need for high-end VR headsets. Attorneys log in from anywhere, interact with colleagues, and replicate a true office experience.
Genuine Culture: Casual “bump-in” interactions, practice group meetings, and social moments are all possible in the Omnusverse—solving the isolation challenge common in remote work.
Cost-Efficiency and Scalability: By eliminating the overhead of traditional leases, Omnus maximizes profitability and can offer more generous compensation.
Why Attorney Well-Being Drives Firm Growth
Scott is vocal about one often overlooked principle: happier lawyers make better lawyers. Investing in attorney fulfillment leads directly to better client results, more loyal teams, and a thriving firm culture.
At Omnus, well-being isn’t an afterthought or a perk; it’s a core business strategy:
Regular Feedback Loops: The firm collects and acts on monthly Net Promoter Score (NPS) surveys from attorneys.
Transparency and Inclusion: Everyone in the firm, from staff to attorneys, takes part in building the vision and future direction.
Values-Driven Culture: Core values like grace, kindness, collaboration, and respect create an environment where people want to contribute and grow.
The Results: Attracting Top Lawyers and Building for the Future
The result of this radical approach? Omnus has received thousands of applications from high-performing attorneys seeking a better way to practice. The firm is scaling nationally and expanding into Europe, all while holding onto its core values.
Omnus isn’t just using technology for technology’s sake. It’s leveraging digital tools intentionally to:
Streamline operations
Foster real human connection
Build a transparent, rewarding culture
According to Scott, you don’t have to be a massive law firm to embrace this visionary model—smaller practices can leverage virtual platforms to scale, reduce overhead, and focus on what matters most.
Takeaway: Prioritize Well-Being for Profit and Performance
If you’re a law firm owner seeking to grow your business and long-term wealth, here’s what you can learn from Omnus Law:
Prioritize attorney well-being as a core business strategy.
Use technology, like a virtual office, to eliminate unnecessary friction and costs.
Develop clear, meaningful values and embed them in hiring, onboarding, and daily operations.
Create intentional systems for feedback and transparency.
Think boldly—expansion and profitability don’t have to come at the expense of autonomy or fulfillment.
Resources:
Book - The Metaverse Workplace Revolution by Jason Gesing
Connect with Darren Wurz:
Connect with Scott C. Pappas:
Email: scottpapas@omnuslaw.com
Linkedin: Scott C. Papas
Website: Omnus Law
Website: Autism Behavioral Wellness
About Scott C. Pappas:
Scott C. Pappas is the Firmwide Managing Partner of Omnus Law, where he leads the firm's mission to modernize legal practice through autonomy, culture, and operational innovation. With more than 20 years of experience spanning litigation, legal operations, and firm leadership, Scott brings a rare dual perspective, grounded in both practice and performance.
Before joining Omnus, he held senior roles at Goodwin, Lowenstein Sandler, and Redgrave LLP, where he built and scaled practice management functions that aligned attorney well-being with business results. A former litigator who has managed large caseloads for financial institutions, Scott also brings a strong foundation in commercial and contract law.
He is also the founder of Autism Behavioral Wellness, a social enterprise dedicated to supporting children and families affected by autism. Scott frequently speaks on the future of legal work, talent retention, and building firm cultures that prioritize both people and performance.
Transcript:
Darren Wurz [00:00:00]:
Imagine running your law firm inside a fully immersive virtual office. No commute, no burnout, just connection and culture. Welcome to the Lawyer Millionaire, helping law firm owners grow their businesses and their wealth. I'm your host, Darren Wurz. Are you stuck in the grind of traditional law firm life? Long hours, office mandates, and a culture that drains more than it gives. Today's conversation is about building a law firm that puts lawyers first and leverages technology to do that. Scott C. Pappas is the firm wide managing partner of Omnus Law.
Darren Wurz [00:00:39]:
He's leading one of the most innovative law firms in the country, pioneering a metaverse based model and a culture rooted in grace, kindness and attorney empowerment.
Darren Wurz [00:00:50]:
All right, Scott, I'm excited to talk with you today. Thanks so much for joining us.
Scott C. Pappas [00:00:55]:
The pleasure is mine, Darren. Thank you so much for having me.
Darren Wurz [00:00:58]:
Yeah, so let's kick it off. Right off the bat. I want to learn about how you guys are doing things at Omnus Law. And one of the things I've read about you is that you have this unique attorney first philosophy. Can you tell us what that means?
Scott C. Pappas [00:01:12]:
Yeah, sure. No, thank you. So Omnus Law is a full service law firm that provides legal services to institutional clients. So we have attorneys that practice in corporate transactions, litigation and commercial disputes as well as IP and then we have some industry focused practices. And how we came to be in existence came from a really interesting and genuine place. So I practiced in big law for 24 years. Our chairman, Jason Guessing practiced as a lawyer and it was his experience practicing that really brought Omnus to light. And you know, at the time, you know, there was this perspective in his practice and what have a lot of us kind of experience is that in order to thrive in a law firm environment, environment, you have to endure great personal sacrifice.
Scott C. Pappas [00:02:01]:
And that could be, you know, the consequence of family relationships, your health, your well being. And so when we thought about the practice of law, we sat down and we spent about 18 months really kind of re envisioning what the practice of law could be. And we did that from the, from the perspective of the attorney experience. And we thought, what if we can have the resources that you would typically find in an Amlod 10 firm in terms of the depth and breadth of support. But couple it with the autonomy of a much smaller practice and give attorneys a compensation structure that really allows them to enjoy that kind of, that balance. We came up with Omnus. And Omnus is very much a mission focused law firm. That mission is really to empower lawyers to have a great practice of law practice and enjoy the practice, but have a great life outside the law.
Scott C. Pappas [00:02:58]:
And that, I think, has often been lost. But, you know, post pandemic, and I think what we've seen, and one of the reasons why we've experienced such tremendous growth in a short period of time is that post pandemic, I think attorneys want something a little different out of the practice of law. So how do we approach those attorneys that are either feeling stifled by big law because of the return to office orders, or they're in a really successful smaller practice and they're looking for the platform to scale while shedding the back office. And that's what we really sought to do. And it's been probably the most fun I've ever had practicing law because we're just, we're trying to impact the experience the attorneys have. And it's been so fulfilling in so many respects. So that's our story.
Darren Wurz [00:03:43]:
Yeah, very cool. I can definitely tell the passion you have law for that. Were you involved in this? Tell us a little bit about how Omnus came to be. Were you involved in the creation of Omnus or did you come to it later? Tell us about that.
Scott C. Pappas [00:03:57]:
So I was, I was at Omnus before we had attorney one. So I met. So I practiced for a number of years. And then for the last, I guess about 18 years, I managed large institutional practices initially at Goodwin Proctor, I'm sorry, at Lowenstein Sandler and then at Goodwin Proctor too. Incredible firms. And I had wonderful experiences. And then I went to. To a boutique firm and I had a great experience there.
Scott C. Pappas [00:04:25]:
But honestly, I was just feeling like I wanted to make a change. And so I had experience in real estate, and I had an active real estate practice from the sense of investing. And then I also had a passion, have a passion for assisting families as they navigate issues relating to the autistic, behavioral health, specifically autism. And I got involved in that maybe, oh, I think it was about 15 years ago, because in 2008, the mental health Parity act was passed. It was a bipartisan bill that required insurance companies to treat mental health issues such as, you know, anxiety and depression and addiction and autism, the same way they would treat physical ailments. So prior to the Mental Health Parity act, if you had a broken ankle, an insurance company would give you in network benefits until your broken ankle is healed. But if you had an addiction or autism, they can limit your benefits. So once that benefit was.
Scott C. Pappas [00:05:25]:
Once that bill was passed, it entitled families to receive benefits that they didn't necessarily have before. So I started advocating for families to get these benefits. But what I realized was that there were services that they were advocating for. They weren't developmental, they weren't evaluative, they weren't parent led and they didn't focus on wellness. And I thought that there's a real opportunity to impact how these families really navigate some of those issues. So I launched a couple companies and they took off like wildfire. And you know, just one county in New Jersey, what, you know, offered to give us 200 children. It was the need for these services was so much greater than the service providers that were out there.
Scott C. Pappas [00:06:09]:
And in that vein, I met Jason Gesing. So we were at a real estate conference and I was wearing a vest that had my autism. The company is Autism Behavioral Wellness that had a logo on it. And we started talking about his connection to special education and there was just a connection. And he sat down with me and he said, I have a project that I'd like you to think about. And we just started talking and we started thinking about what this law firm can be. Everything from who the people we really need to support these practices, to the technology that's really going to make a difference and the processes that are really going to enhance the value proposition ultimately to the clients. And that was seeing something from the, from the absolute start has been just a thrilling moment in my life.
Darren Wurz [00:06:57]:
That's really, really cool. What got you so interested or passionate about autism?
Scott C. Pappas [00:07:04]:
You know, I think so. My brother, I've always had this, this interest in advocating for people who couldn't advocate for themselves. So my brother, he and I are very, very close and I'm incredibly proud of him. He has a hearing impairment, a severe to profound sensorineural hearing loss since he was born. And I always, you know, it was always important to me to stick up and ensure that he was given equal opportunity throughout his entire life. And you know, he has this incredible company now that empowers other deaf people called Deaf Rumor, that empowers other people to other deaf people in the deaf community to enjoy the outer, the outdoor spaces. So he advocates, he educates state and national parks on how to, how to really kind of cater to the deaf community. He empowers the deaf community to really get outdoors and enjoy the, enjoy mother nature.
Scott C. Pappas [00:08:07]:
And it's just been a wonderful passion project for him. He's doing really well. But, you know, when I started seeing the lack of services that, or the quality of services that these families were advocating for, it was disappointing. They were babysitting services and we wanted something that was a little bit more developmental. We wanted families to enjoy their time together as a family and we wanted to do it from a wellness perspective. We wanted these families not only to enjoy their time together, but we wanted these, these, these families to really develop healthy habits, to be, have their children become healthy adults. So they involve principles of preventative health care and nutrition and physical activity. And so that was our mantra and that was, that was our vision.
Scott C. Pappas [00:08:58]:
So in that, that, that journey led me to Jason.
Darren Wurz [00:09:02]:
Yeah, that's really fantastic. So you've really been vocal about mental health in law firms. And that's what your panel was all about at Legal Week, which I really enjoyed by the way. Why is mental health so critical for law firms today?
Scott C. Pappas [00:09:21]:
So it's funny, the simple answer, and I don't want to be. Life is short and I'll tell you that I recognized how short it is and I sent my, my older son off to college. And you realize now how, but generally speaking, you know, there's, I think the practice of law is a privilege and it's, it's a, it's an incredible, you know, gift that, that we all who practice have that and, but you know, that we know so many disenchanted lawyers. So when we talk about, when we talk about success, a lot of us think about compensation. Right. And accolades. But to me it's more focused on fulfillment and that's really important. And that's a much higher bar, you know.
Scott C. Pappas [00:10:16]:
And what happens is people tend to forget themselves in terms of their identity, they identify themselves or their self identity. I'm a lawyer and that's who I am. And you know, when we think about a culture and when we think about sustainability as, you know, if you think about attorneys as a workforce, we want to make sure that these attorneys are well cared for. We want to make sure that they're fulfilled in the practice and that's allowing them to embrace all aspects of their life. Not just the practice, but the non practice aspects of their life. And what we find is that happier lawyers make better lawyers. They have greater value proposition to the clients and they're more fully invested. Not in, in the firm, in your clients, in the practice, in their own personal development.
Scott C. Pappas [00:11:04]:
There's a whole host of wonderful, wonderful results. If you have that perspective when you're creating a culture in a law firm.
Darren Wurz [00:11:13]:
Right, Absolutely. So one of the things you've talked about is prioritizing well being not just as a perk, but really more as a business strategy. And have you seen that really translate into, into Your business results at a law firm level.
Scott C. Pappas [00:11:29]:
So it's been transformative not only to us, but to the lawyers who join us. You know, it's, we have wonderful lawyers and we've received, you know, thousands of applications of lawyers that, who are looking for something different out of the practice. They're great lawyers who have, you know, have wonderful experiences at firms, but because they're experiencing the same thing that many of us have experienced, that there's, you know, look, you know, whether it's your family or personal relationships or hobbies, that unfortunately certain environments in the practice of law don't necessarily permit people to engage in those types of, you know, those efforts that really kind of helped keep them balanced. So it has, it, it's resulted in the quality of the lawyers that we're able to bring on at Omnus. And it also results in the experience that they' having it on us. So it's a win, win for everyone. Candidly.
Darren Wurz [00:12:28]:
Yeah. Yeah, I'm not surprised. Let's talk specifics. What is something specifically that you've changed in the day to day operations of your law firm that has made a huge positive impact?
Scott C. Pappas [00:12:43]:
Autonomy. So now with these return to office orders, they're being viewed in the light of resent, in our light of resentment as well as desire of law firms to control their, their attorneys. And it's really, you know, so when you impose this level of autonomy, a true level of autonomy, I'm not micromanaging our practices, I'm overseeing. We have practice chairs to ensure that we're providing great legal service and the support that we need and that everything is consistent with the values and, and the quality that we expect from our lawyers. But we're not going around checking to see who's sitting at their desk at 4 o' clock on a Friday. And we're not expecting people to engage in facetime. And we're giving people the resources and the flexibility to practice on their own terms. And not only is that in the day to day, but our model and our platform and our firm allows attorneys to really determine to what extent they want to work.
Scott C. Pappas [00:13:46]:
We don't have billable hour requirements, we don't have minimum generation requirements. We bring on lawyers who are successful, but they've achieved this level of success because they've been able to demonstrate that they can manage their practice in a really productive, effective way. And I certainly don't want to get in the way of that. I want to enhance it, empower that. And we leverage technology to do that. And we leverage, you know, Our support, we have a centralized support system that provides everything that you would expect a large law firm to privates attorneys. But we do so in a way that allows them to do it wherever they want. We have a full service campus in the Metaverse called the Omniverse, which allows that level of.
Darren Wurz [00:14:22]:
I was going to ask you about that.
Scott C. Pappas [00:14:23]:
Yeah, it's probably one of the most dynamic components of who we are. Everyone here works remotely and. But we're far from a virtual firm because what we do have is this full service campus in the Metaverse that was designed by a human behaviorist to emulate the experience an attorney would have in a traditional brick and mortar office. Because, Darren, you're in California, right. And I'm sitting in New Jersey. We're not bumping into each other in the street anytime soon. But having a centralized office that allows, allows for bump in interactions and it has that, that perpetual sense of presence that a traditional brick and mortar office does. So many Metaverse platforms are transactional.
Scott C. Pappas [00:15:10]:
You have an avatar, you drop in, you know, you leave your meeting and that's it. My avatar sits in my office. And if you have a question, Darren, you come walking into my office, I'll get a ping in my ear that you're there. We'll have our conversation the same way we would in a traditional brick and mortar and you can go on your way. It's designed to facilitate collaboration. And the interesting thing is when we launched Omnus Law with this Metaverse and the Omniverse capability, Jason and I, we wondered how it would, how it would kind of resonate with lawyers, lobbying, such a traditional profession. But everyone, it's university lauded and loved because one, it's really intuitive in terms of technology, but it allows people to work seamlessly, it has a zero carbon footprint, there are no accessibility issues. And because we leverage that the Metaverse to such a high level, to such a high level of efficiency, it allows us to be far more profitable as a law firm and allow a much more lucrative compensation structure or attorneys.
Scott C. Pappas [00:16:18]:
So it's, you know, everyone embraces it. It's where we have our practice group meetings, our leadership meetings, and it's where everyone has their office. And we're just on the third iteration of it. We're rolling it out now. It's a homegrown, certain purpose built platform that is just absolutely wonderful. It's pretty amazing what technology can do in terms of the practice of law.
Darren Wurz [00:16:44]:
That is. So the title of this episode is going to be Something about the Law Firm in the Metaverse.
Scott C. Pappas [00:16:50]:
I love it. It's perfect.
Darren Wurz [00:16:52]:
That's fantastic. So it's like, it's like virtual reality. You're there and you're walking around the campus and there are offices and rooms and that kind of thing.
Scott C. Pappas [00:17:01]:
Yeah, that's absolutely. Right. Now you don't need any type of special technology, right. So for our platform. So you don't need VR head, you don't need a VR headset, you don't need, you know, it's designed to be, they have a minimal drain on, on your technology. It's designed to be really intuitive. But. That's right.
Scott C. Pappas [00:17:18]:
I mean, when you walk around and when you see, you know, the firm and individuals walking around that you may not bump into. Otherwise, you know, you talk about, you know, how your children are doing and what you did on the weekend and it's just, and it's designed to have that, that level of connectivity that you don't have. You know, and certainly with attorneys working in remote environments, you do feel siloed and isolated staring at the same four walls. This, this addresses that and this corrects that and, and compensates for that. And so it's been, it's been a wonderful, a wonderful kind of lever for us to really be a differentiator in the legal market.
Darren Wurz [00:17:58]:
Are other law firms doing this or are you kind of a pioneer in this?
Scott C. Pappas [00:18:02]:
No other law firms, at least to my knowledge. I don't know of any other law firms that are leveraging the metaverse in the way we are. You know, I think there are law firms that leverage team platforms and zoom and maybe in a transactional. But this is a key component of our, of our tech stack and a key component to our culture that really allows for that connectivity. No one's touching it. Yeah.
Darren Wurz [00:18:29]:
Wow, that's really cool. Now how are you keeping the team and the, the firm aligned, you know, to the vision and to your firm wide goals? You're using any kind of specific framework like EOS or scaling up or what does your, your structure look like?
Scott C. Pappas [00:18:45]:
It's really so, you know, it really is premised upon transparency. Look, we want our attorneys to be evangelists for who we are and what we're doing. And the only way that can happen is if they're part of the process. So we have partner meetings and we have all attorney meetings and we have staff meetings. We had one today that talk about a couple different things, new exciting initiatives. Because we are, we're in our infancy in terms of growth. We've been practicing for a year, but this is just the Start and in a couple of different respects and I'll explain what I mean in a moment. But in terms of growth as far as headcount and the exciting attorneys were, were coming on, who are coming on to Omnus and they're books of business.
Scott C. Pappas [00:19:31]:
But it's really kind of sharing in that vision. And I think that, you know, if they don't, if. I think a big problem a law firm, law firms face in general is that there's a lack of transparency. People tend to feel that their role is very transactional in a law firm and we do our best, you know, to avoid that. And it's. I think that's the key component. I don't think it's technology or a system. I just think it's being transparent in terms of who we are having access to Jason and his vision and really kind of making sure we institutionalize feedback opportunities.
Scott C. Pappas [00:20:09]:
So everything we do is on nps. So we want to make sure that the feedback that we get from our lawyers.
Darren Wurz [00:20:16]:
For anyone who's not familiar. Can you tell us what NPS is?
Scott C. Pappas [00:20:19]:
Yeah, so it's net promoter surveys. So what happens is we send out monthly surveys to all of our attorneys to make sure that we're getting real time feedback in terms of what's working, what the opportunities are, what's not. And that's just one mechanism we use. I meet with all the attorneys, our leaders meet with all the attorneys on a regular basis to make sure we're getting that real time feedback. Because we're nimble, we're not struck to a structure that's 200 years old. And while we may think there's a process that's optimal, there's always someone that has a nuance that can really make it that much better. And we want to make sure we have the conduits to that type of feedback. But involving our folks, whether no matter if it's staff or attorney in the process, that's critical to our success.
Scott C. Pappas [00:21:12]:
And that's really been an important part of the driver of our culture as well.
Darren Wurz [00:21:16]:
Yeah, absolutely. So feedback and getting that on a regular basis, really systemizing that process. What, what are some of. I'm kind of getting a sense of what they are, but could you share with us what specifically some of your core values are as a firm?
Scott C. Pappas [00:21:33]:
You're going to hear two words that Omnus quite frequently and that's grace and kindness. So you know, those are the two pillars upon which our culture is found it. So, you know, certainly we expect fundamentally lawyers to practice great law. We Understand that there's a whole framework of ethics that we expect our lawyers to adhere to. But when we think about those other cultures and values, those other qualities and values, they come down to really respect collaboration and collegiality. And I'm sure many firms say that and it's. And that's. And that's the way it should be.
Scott C. Pappas [00:22:09]:
Right. So it's just, we'll never be a firm full of solo practitioners. Our culture is designed to create fellowship amongst attorneys. It's designed for knowledge sharing and matter sharing. And it's something that I'm really protective of because one thing that I think there's so much, so much great about big law and it's, I've been fortunate that I worked for in my two of the best between Goodwin and Lowenstein, you know, but I've heard and in some instances experienced Big Law culture can have some hard edges. And we want to make sure that those hard edges stay outside of the firm. And so when we're evaluating the right attorney, we want to make sure that not only they have great lawyers and have great practices, but we want them to be active participants in our culture. That's really important to us.
Scott C. Pappas [00:22:58]:
I don't make anything mandatory. Everything we have, we do here is an opt in. So we want to make sure that people feel empowered to opt into our culture in a way that really is going to elevate everyone.
Darren Wurz [00:23:10]:
Yeah, absolutely. So grace and kindness, you know that those are great core values. I think they're very unique. I mean, I think, you know, the traditional words you hear are, you know, we fight for our clients, just things like that. But that, that really talks about the internal atmosphere that you're trying to create. So, you know, culture is tricky because it's not something that happens overnight. It really takes a lot of intentionality. And in this, you know, we have kind of this business growth pyramid and we put culture at the top because it really evolves over time.
Darren Wurz [00:23:50]:
What are some other ways that you really try to make sure that you're really intentionally influenced, influencing the culture towards grace and kindness?
Scott C. Pappas [00:24:00]:
So. Well, first it's bringing on the right people, right. So you can get a sense from having conversations of, you know, whether they lead with ego or, you know, you can, you can really get a good sense of that. But in certain being intentional about culture, one, in creating a structure that really allows for knowledge, for knowledge sharing, fellowship, that's critical. You don't refer work, you know, to strangers. So we want to make sure that there's, that those opportunities to connect. And we have someone in our firm whose role really it is, is to make sure that their attorneys, in their onboarding process and throughout their time at on this, really connect with those attorneys who may have common aspects to their practice, whether it could be client relationships or aspects. You know, Katrina Osborne is our manager of practice development.
Scott C. Pappas [00:24:48]:
She is really instrumental in making sure that our attorneys get integrated in a pretty meaningful way to our firm. And we also have a complete onboarding department that also assists in that respect. But really, I think you have to live by your values. And it comes from. We expect our leaders and our practice group leaders to provide those opportunities to make sure that they're facilitating that converse conversations amongst attorneys, but really just making sure that, you know, with our culture, that there's opportunities really to just get to know each other as people. Now, certainly we're great lawyers and I'm really proud of the law that the staff that we have and we have great results for our clients. And that's fundamental. We all fight for our clients.
Scott C. Pappas [00:25:40]:
But I think when we look at the attorney experience and how we empower that to them to service our clients, I think it all starts from within.
Darren Wurz [00:25:48]:
So, so how about clients? Right? Because, you know, not all clients exude grace and kindness at all times. How do you deal with that?
Scott C. Pappas [00:25:59]:
Look, we're lawyers and we represent our clients and our clients may be stressed about a particular, you know, event in, you know, you know, that's going on in their, in their life or in their corporate history. Look, advocating for our clients and making sure that we're true, strategic, strategic partners with our clients, you know, that's fundamental to what we do as lawyers at Omnus Law. You know, you're right. Sometimes clients, you know, you know, they're, they're under time pressure, they're under internal pressure, personal pressure because of a certain instance. As counselors, that's what we deal with. And look, we deal. We treat them with grace and kindness the same way we would, you know, internally. I think that part of being great partners to our clients and great counselors is being able to navigate clients that may be dealing with some difficult issues and help them navigate through it in a way that helps them achieve whatever goal is they need to achieve.
Scott C. Pappas [00:26:59]:
So. But yes, we all do. We all deal with those clients for sure.
Darren Wurz [00:27:03]:
Yeah. One of our core values is treat people with love. And, you know, because people might, you know, you always are going to have, you know, those. Sometimes you have client interactions where clients are really upset or they're really frustrated or Something's happening, but trying to just understand where you don't know what's happening in their life. Right. They, they may have had a terrible day and, you know, everything may be falling down around them. Right. And so trying to just understand that and approach them with, with that grace and understanding.
Darren Wurz [00:27:38]:
And if you can exude that, oftentimes you can really bring the temperature down.
Scott C. Pappas [00:27:44]:
That's right.
Darren Wurz [00:27:45]:
Significantly.
Scott C. Pappas [00:27:47]:
No, you're absolutely right. I mean, look, I think it's our responsibility, you know, to certainly appreciate the urgency of a situation or the importance of a situation, but not be reactive. You know, in a way that's going to escalate the issue. Right. So it's just, you know, that's, that's why we're retained. So. But, you know, and I love that spirit of, you know, treating those with love. And I just, I think it's, it's so important and sometimes that's lost in the practice, but it's something that, you know, certainly we're trying to bring back as well.
Scott C. Pappas [00:28:16]:
But no, I, I appreciate your, your perspective on that.
Darren Wurz [00:28:19]:
Very cool. So where is Ominous headed in the next three to five years?
Scott C. Pappas [00:28:25]:
It's so certainly continuing upon our growth model in expanding, certainly types of practices. Well, I think we'll always be an institutional law firm that. But I think the depth of practices and the depth of practice, the breadth of practices, certainly to increase, we have, we are going to evolve into a large law firm. It's not going to be at the consequence of, you know, who we are or the type of lawyer we bring on board or our culture, but I think that we offer something really unique in the market. You know, what's, you know, and we are expanding in Europe and I think that there's, you know, everything we're doing is really looking at the ROI on it. And I think, you know, between the UK and Germany as an ex. As a second and third stop, I think that's really next and that'll happen in 2025. Beyond that, I think it's where our opportunity exists.
Scott C. Pappas [00:29:17]:
But, you know, I think that the way we're structured is Omnus Technologies is our umbrella, is our umbrella company. Omnus Law is the first vertical that we really launched underneath that umbrella company. And we think that there's similar opportunity in other professional service verticals to really enhance the experience and the offering that our attorneys are offering, their. They're offering, they're providing their clients. And, and what I mean is we have a government relations and lobbying vertical that we're looking to stand up that's going to have the same core tenets of what we have in the law firm where we're envisioning an investment bank that is going to serve the, the small to mid cap market, but also serve as a funding source for startup clients in our Omnus Venture Circle practice which focuses on startups and at various stages of in their life cycle. So what I envision is not just the law firm growing, but our ecosystem kind of leveraging a lot of the same core technology values and cultural aspirations that we have in the law firm. So I think it's going to grow in a couple different ways.
Darren Wurz [00:30:23]:
That is so exciting. What a great big picture concept. I really love that thinking. That gets me excited for you.
Scott C. Pappas [00:30:32]:
Thank you. This, it's just, you know, when you're, when you sit down and you say, I know we can disrupt this professional services, you know, area and this and we say, you know, I know that there's an opportunity to provide disruption in, you know, corporate finance and what would that look like? And just being able to be free to have those conversations is incredibly empowering and incredibly exciting. So, you know, so yeah, so I think it's, that's where I see our growth. But it's, this is just the start.
Darren Wurz [00:31:06]:
Darren, so very cool. Well, Scott, we're coming down to the end of our time, unfortunately, but I have one more question for you. You know, as a great leader yourself, I'm really interested to get your take on this. Part of what we do at the Lawyer Millionaire is we have a book club that we run for law firm leaders. We read one book quarter. So I'm always interested what leaders are reading. Is there a book you're reading right now that you're really enjoying? Or if not, maybe one of your favorites has really been transformative for you?
Scott C. Pappas [00:31:36]:
You know what's interesting, when I started joining, when I, when I started talking to Jason Guessing, he had just written a book and it was about his experience in how his use of the metaverse in another professional services sector was really transformative. And it was, it provides a lot of context and a lot of just really anecdotes about, you know, his experience. And so to me it helped me put what we're doing in the metaverse, you know, for lawyers, you know, in, in context through his eyes. And it was just a wonderful, and I think I have it here. So it's, you know, it's called the Metaverse, the workplace revolution. And he did a fantastic job with it. You know, that's the one that I go to and, but it was just a great opportunity to really look at someone who was instrumental in institutionalizing a Metaverse environment. So that would be the one that I'd recommend.
Darren Wurz [00:32:42]:
And what was the name of that one more time?
Scott C. Pappas [00:32:44]:
The Metaverse. It's called the Metaverse. The Workplace Revolution. It's by Jason Guessing.
Darren Wurz [00:32:49]:
So the Workplace Rev. Well, we'll make sure to put the link to that in the show. Notes. I lied. I've got one. One more question. You know, a lot of our listeners are smaller law firms as well. Do you have to be a big firm to.
Darren Wurz [00:33:03]:
To get set up in the metaverse or could this be for like, you know, five to ten size firms?
Scott C. Pappas [00:33:09]:
Yeah, no, so, so, you know, we're not. What we look for are great lawyers with great practices that align with what we're doing. So there are plenty of smaller shops who are joining Omnus because we take care of their back end. We can help them scale their practice. You know, it's not just the big firm, big law firm exile or the big law firm partner that's getting aged out. It's the smaller boutique that's really successful that is feeling, you know, look, if I can shed my back end and then have a, you know, have a great place to scale my practice with, you know, that's a tremendous opportunity for us. Yeah. So.
Darren Wurz [00:33:49]:
Okay.
Darren Wurz [00:33:49]:
Very cool. Well, Scott, it's been fantastic talking with you. Thanks so much for joining us today.
Scott C. Pappas [00:33:55]:
Darren, this was absolutely my pleasure. Thank you so much. It's wonderful chatting with you.
Darren Wurz [00:33:59]:
Absolutely.
Darren Wurz [00:34:01]:
A big thank you to Scott C. Pappas for joining us today and sharing his visionary approach to Lear law firm leadership. You can learn more about Omnus law@Omnuslaw.com and be sure to check the show notes for all the links and resources we mentioned. Here's my challenge to you, friend. What would your law firm look like if you prioritized attorney well being as a business strategy, not just a perk. At the Lawyer Millionaire, we believe building long term wealth starts with building a better business. Creating a thriving, values driven law firm is the foundation for financial freedom. And that's exactly what we help law firm owners do every day.
Darren Wurz [00:34:41]:
To learn more about how we can help you grow your firm and your wealth, visit lawyermillionaire.com and download the first chapter of my book, the Lawyer Millionaire. And don't forget to join our free book club and connect with other forward thinking law firm owners just like you. Who is the Lawyer Millionaire? It's you, my friend. Own it and live it. I'm your host, Darren Wirtz. Thanks for joining me. See you next time.