Law Firm Intake Tactics That Win More Signed Cases Without More Marketing Spend (Ep. 188)

Many law firm owners assume that when new clients stop coming in, the solution is to spend more money on marketing. They invest in SEO, Google Ads, website improvements, and lead-generation campaigns, hoping that more traffic will translate into more clients.

But what if the problem isn't your marketing budget?

On this episode, host Darren Wurz sits down with Rafi Arbel, former practicing attorney and founder of Market JD, to discuss how law firms can improve their marketing strategies, strengthen client intake, and increase profitability.

Their conversation highlights an important lesson for law firm owners: Generating more leads will not solve the problem if your firm struggles to convert those leads into signed cases.

Before increasing your marketing spend, you need to understand where your leads come from, how effectively your team follows up, and what happens between a prospective client's first inquiry and the moment they hire your firm.

Here are the key lessons from their conversation.

1. Measure Marketing Success by Signed Cases, Not Just Website Traffic

Marketing agencies often report on impressions, clicks, keyword rankings, website traffic, and the number of leads generated. These metrics can be valuable, but they don't tell the entire story.

A website might attract thousands of visitors without generating a meaningful number of new clients. Similarly, a campaign might produce numerous inquiries that never turn into signed cases.

According to Arbel, one of the major challenges in legal marketing is connecting marketing activity to actual business outcomes.

His company developed Performance JD, a platform designed to connect marketing data with case outcomes so law firms can better understand where their signed cases originate.

For law firm owners, the lesson is clear: Don't evaluate your marketing solely by how much activity it generates. Evaluate whether that activity contributes to the firm's growth.

Ask your marketing agency questions such as:

• Which marketing channels generate the most qualified leads?

• How many leads from each channel become signed clients?

• What is the cost of acquiring a signed case?

• Which campaigns generate valuable cases rather than simply high lead volumes?

These answers help you make better decisions about where to invest your marketing dollars.

2. Choose a Marketing Budget That Matches Your Growth Goals

How much should a law firm spend on marketing?

Arbel explains that the answer depends on the firm's revenue, cash flow, practice area, competitive environment, and growth ambitions.

During the episode, he offers the following general guidelines:

• 5–10% of revenue: A possible range for newer firms with limited cash flow.

• 15–20% of revenue: A potential range for firms generating seven-figure revenue.

• At least 15% of revenue: His suggested starting point for firms committed to professionalizing their revenue operations and pursuing growth.

These figures are guidelines not universal benchmarks for every law firm.

A personal injury firm operating in a highly competitive market may need a different marketing strategy and budget from a family law practice serving a smaller community.

Your budget should also reflect your capacity to handle new cases. Spending more to generate leads makes little sense if your team cannot respond to inquiries promptly or serve additional clients effectively.

The objective is not simply to spend more. It is to invest strategically in a system that can convert marketing expenditure into profitable growth.

3. Build Your Brand Before Investing Heavily in Digital Advertising

For newer law firms, Arbel recommends building brand awareness and community relationships before committing substantial resources to SEO and pay-per-click advertising.

Why?

Because people are more likely to trust and hire a law firm they recognize.

A strong reputation can improve the performance of every other marketing channel. When prospective clients already know your name, your website and advertising campaigns may be more effective at turning interest into inquiries.

Arbel recommends practical activities such as:

• Sponsoring local events and community races.

• Identifying your ideal client and learning where to reach them.

• Building relationships with people and organizations in your target community.

• Developing a professional, well-designed website.

• Considering Google Local Services Ads and other appropriate digital channels.

This approach encourages law firm owners to think beyond search rankings and advertising campaigns.

Your brand is not just your logo or website. It is the reputation you build, the relationships you develop, and the trust people associate with your firm.

4. Make Google Reviews a Priority

Online reviews are an important part of how prospective clients evaluate law firms.

Arbel identifies Google reviews as a particularly valuable source of trust because they provide feedback from people outside the firm's own marketing efforts.

He recommends maintaining a Google Business Profile, responding to reviews, and consistently asking people who have had a positive experience with the firm to share their feedback.

One interesting point from the episode is that opportunities to request reviews may extend beyond former clients.

For example, a prospective client might contact a lawyer with a problem the firm cannot take on. If the lawyer still provides helpful guidance and the person appreciates the interaction, that individual may be willing to leave an honest review.

The key is to ask appropriately and follow the applicable platform rules and professional conduct requirements.

For firms with limited marketing budgets, building a strong online reputation can be a practical way to strengthen credibility and improve visibility.

5. Prepare Your Law Firm for AI Search Without Chasing Shortcuts

Artificial intelligence is changing how people discover information, including legal services. This raises an important question: How can law firms improve their chances of appearing in AI-generated search results?

Arbel cautions against companies that promise guaranteed placement on AI platforms. In his view, there is no dependable shortcut for manipulating these systems.

Instead, he recommends building a strong online presence through established practices.

These include maintaining accurate business information across online directories, developing useful website content, structuring pages clearly, and building a recognizable reputation.

He also emphasizes the value of being listed in reputable legal directories and ensuring that the firm's name, address, and phone number are consistent across platforms.

AI visibility is not simply a technical SEO problem. Reputation and recognition matter, too.

The broader lesson is to invest in the fundamentals of a credible digital presence rather than chasing every new marketing trend or buying into unrealistic promises.

6. Fix Your Intake Process Before Buying More Leads

This is perhaps the most important lesson from the episode.

A law firm can invest heavily in marketing and still struggle to grow if its intake process is ineffective.

Arbel explains that some firms, particularly those handling large volumes of inquiries, fail to follow up consistently with promising leads. Intake teams may make a couple of calls, send an email or text message, and then move on to the next inquiry.

The problem is that some of those unanswered leads may represent valuable cases.

When a firm fails to follow up, it risks losing opportunities it has already paid to generate.

Before increasing your marketing budget, examine what happens after a prospective client contacts your firm.

Consider the following questions:

• How quickly does your team respond to new inquiries?

• How many times does it attempt to reach an unresponsive prospect?

• Are follow-up attempts recorded and monitored?

• Does someone take responsibility for leads that have not yet been converted?

• Can you identify qualified leads that were never contacted again?

You may discover that the firm doesn't need more leads as much as it needs a better process for handling the leads it already receives.

7. Create a Consistent Follow-Up System

A successful intake process requires more than waiting for prospective clients to return your calls.

During the conversation, Arbell describes a follow-up method used by a firm discussed at a legal industry event.

The approach involves texting a prospective client before calling, then using a double dial: making two calls in quick succession. Some phones automatically send unfamiliar numbers to voicemail, so the second call may have a better chance of reaching the person.

The approach can be repeated when appropriate, with the example discussed involving four calls within the first five minutes.

Arbell also advocates continued outreach through calls, emails, and text messages at different times of the day.

Every firm should develop a follow-up sequence suited to its practice, staffing, and prospective clients. Outreach should remain professional and stop when a person requests no further contact.

The central principle is simple: A missed call should not automatically mean a lost opportunity.

A documented follow-up system gives your team a consistent way to pursue promising inquiries rather than leaving the outcome to individual habits or memory.

8. Train Intake Teams to Listen and Show Empathy

Converting a lead into a client requires more than persistence. It requires trust.

As Arbell explains, prospective clients are often dealing with difficult, stressful, or life-changing situations. When they contact a law firm, they want to feel that someone understands their circumstances and can help them navigate what comes next.

That makes active listening and empathy essential intake skills.

An intake representative who rushes through questions, interrupts frequently, or sounds indifferent can undermine the prospective client's confidence in the firm.

By contrast, someone who listens carefully, acknowledges the person's concerns, and explains the next steps clearly can help establish trust.

Arbell recommends monitoring intake calls to evaluate performance and identify opportunities for improvement. He describes assessing calls against multiple metrics, with active listening and empathy among the most important.

Law firm owners should regularly review how their teams communicate, provide constructive feedback, and ensure that intake representatives understand the human significance of the calls they handle.

The goal is not to turn every conversation into an aggressive sales pitch. It is to help prospective clients feel heard while clearly communicating how the firm can assist them.

9. Align Intake Compensation With Performance

Another practical insight from the episode concerns how law firms motivate intake teams.

Arbel recommends tracking performance indicators such as the number of calls handled, qualified leads received, signed clients secured, and at-risk leads requiring follow-up.

He also suggests making performance visible to the team through dashboards or scoreboards so employees can understand their progress.

For experienced intake representatives who consistently perform well, he advocates a compensation structure with a stronger performance-based bonus tied to signed clients.

The reasoning is that intake plays a direct role in converting marketing investments into revenue. Compensation should recognize the value of that contribution.

However, any incentive structure should balance signed cases with appropriate service quality, ethical conduct, lead qualification, and client suitability. Otherwise, employees may feel pressured to prioritize quantity over the quality of the client experience.

A well-designed system rewards results while reinforcing the behaviors that help the firm build trust and serve clients effectively.

10. Use AI to Multiply Expertise, Not Just Follow a Trend

The conversation also explores how AI can help law firms become more effective.

Arbel argues that access to AI alone is unlikely to provide a lasting competitive advantage because the technology is increasingly available to everyone.

The real opportunity lies in combining AI with professional knowledge and proven processes.

A firm that understands its work deeply can use AI to capture expertise, support repeatable workflows, and apply that knowledge more consistently across different situations.

For example, a firm might identify a well-developed internal process and explore how AI can help staff apply it consistently. The process still depends on knowledgeable professionals who can ask appropriate questions, assess the results, and determine whether the output is reliable.

AI should strengthen a firm's capabilities, not replace the judgment required to deliver good legal services.

The Bigger Picture: Marketing Should Build Profitability, Not Just Activity

Throughout the episode, Darren Wurz and Rafi Arbel return to a broader business principle: Law firm growth requires coordination between marketing, intake, operations, and financial management.

More traffic is not necessarily more business. More leads are not necessarily more signed cases. And more signed cases do not automatically translate into greater personal wealth for the owner.

A firm needs to understand how its marketing investments perform, ensure its intake team follows up effectively, and evaluate whether additional growth is financially sustainable.

That means viewing marketing as part of the entire business rather than treating it as a separate department or expense.

When the different parts of the firm work together, owners can make better-informed decisions about where to invest, how to improve conversion, and how to build a more sustainable practice.

Final Thoughts: Fix the Leaks Before Turning Up the Tap

If your law firm is struggling to attract enough clients, increasing your marketing budget may eventually be the right decision. But first, examine the process that turns inquiries into signed cases.

Are you tracking where your clients come from? Is your brand recognizable in your community? Are prospective clients finding credible reviews of your firm? Does your intake team follow up consistently? Are your representatives listening carefully and building trust?

These questions can reveal opportunities that would otherwise remain hidden behind disappointing marketing results.

The most valuable growth opportunity may not be generating more leads. It may be converting more of the leads you already have.

As the conversation on The Lawyer Millionaire makes clear, successful law firm marketing is about more than visibility. It is about building a reliable system that turns attention into clients, clients into profitable business, and profitable business into long-term financial freedom.

Before spending another dollar on marketing, make sure your firm is doing everything possible to convert the opportunities it already has.

Resources:

• Profit from the Core: A Return to Growth in Turbulent Times by Chris Zook with James Allen (Book)

• Law Firm Financial Reporting Template Pack (Exclusive content)

• Law Firm Profitability Assessment

• How to Calculate Your Law Firm Tax Reserve

• Get your Free Law Firm Audit

• Download the Client Attraction Playbook

Connect with Darren Wurz:

• Want to work with our team? Schedule an Intro Call

• The Lawyer Millionaire Website

• LinkedIn: Darren P. Wurz

• Join The Lawyer Millionaire® Community

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• Subscribe to The Lawyer Millionaire Youtube Channel

Connect with Rafi Arbel:

• Email: rafi@marketjd.com

• Linkedin: Rafi Arbel

• Website: Market JD

About Rafi Arbel:

Since 2000, Rafi Arbel has been helping hundreds of attorneys double their online lead volume in as little as one year. Working for the largest provider of online marketing and legal research, Rafi built a reputation as a leader in law-firm marketing, strategy and operations.

As lawyers began to face increasing competition for clients, Rafi started Market JD to offer consumer law firms a new online marketing alternative, one that provides a greater return on investment, more flexibility, and personalized service.

A former litigator who ran his own practice, Mr. Arbel uses his first-hand knowledge of the legal industry to help lawyers grow their client base, increase margins and improve their quality of life.

Rafi speaks to lawyers across the country on internet marketing, including in Nevada, Tennessee, Ohio, and Massachusetts. Formerly on the Board of Governors for the Northwest Suburban Bar Association, he has spoken to bar associations across the country and was the featured speaker before the entire sales force, account managers and senior executives at the TR 2008 National Sales Meeting in Orlando, Florida.

In addition to his broad and diverse legal consulting experience, Rafi earned his MBA, with honors, from the University of Chicago Booth School of Business. He was inducted into the national business honors society, Beta Gamma Sigma, in 2009.

If your firm is looking to meaningfully increase revenue and the size of your client base, give Rafi a call at 312.970.9353 or visit www.marketjd.com for more information.

Transcript:

Darren Wurz (00:00.876)

Most law firm owners reach for a bigger marketing budget when the leads slow down. But the man who runs a marketing agency says that may be the wrong lever to pull first. All right, and welcome back to the Lawyer Millionaire podcast. I'm your host, Darren Wurz, and I have a very special guest joining me today, Rafi Arbel. Welcome to the show, Rafi.

Rafi Arbel (00:23.672)

Thank you, Darren. I appreciate being here.

Darren Wurz (00:26.338)

And we're so excited to have you here to talk about marketing. You know, it's always a big challenge for law firm owners. And you have a really unique, had a really unique journey into the world of marketing. You practiced for six years, you sold to lawyers at Thomson Reuters, and then you built an agency. What did you see from inside your own practice that told you firms were getting marketing wrong?

Rafi Arbel (00:53.55)

I really saw it more when I was working at Thomson Reuters. I was going to I was a door to door salesman and I would go into these offices of small law firms and I would hear about their struggles to gain visibility and attract clients and I thought I could offer a voice that that my clients would appreciate more than

maybe offer service that they'd appreciate more than the service they were getting. and that's how my agency evolved in twenty ten.

Darren Wurz (01:29.454)

Very cool. know, most agencies report on clicks and rankings and probably ninety-nine other things. You've mentioned that reporting on signed cases is really your your favorite. Why do so few agencies measure that way? And what does that tell a firm owner about their current vendor, perhaps?

Rafi Arbel (01:50.208)

Right. So what you're really asking me about is part of a much larger issue and a much bigger struggle that I went through over the last sixteen years. And that struggle was that when we did our when we marketed for our clients, we would get a whole bunch of marketing data and as you referenced, impressions, clicks, keyword ranking.

and even the leads. So we could give our clients a list of the leads and all of this other marketing data and we'd send it to them and we'd say, so what happened? And more often than not, the attorneys had no idea. They might keep they might have kept a list of signed cases and they'd try to compare my marketing leads against their list of signed cases. But oftentimes I knew our results were much better than what was reflected

In those signed cases. And so over time, we developed a process and ultimately a platform that allows us to connect marketing data that you just mentioned, all those impressions and clicks and keyword rankings, with outcome data, which is signed cases. And that platform is called Performance JD, and that tells lawyers.

What happened with their marketing? Where did their signed cases come from?

Darren Wurz (03:23.576)

Great, great. When a firm hires an agency like yours or or another one, is that I'm assuming that's something they should demand. Are there other things that they should really demand to see in a monthly report? And what's more of a vanity metric that really isn't that valuable?

Rafi Arbel (03:40.792)

So I don't believe in vanity metrics. Okay. because we hear that often. I just think that some metrics by themselves don't offer enough context to make any conclusions. So effective marketers, and if you speak with chief fract excuse me, if you speak with fractional chief marketing officers, they will often have multiple spreadsheets, all of the same data that we we offer in

Performance JD. And the reason that they use all of these metrics is that marketing is so sophisticated that you have to look at many different metrics to get a full picture. So impressions are really important when you're starting a marketing campaign, a digital marketing campaign, an SEO campaign, because that's the green shoots. Those are that reflects the fact that you planted the seeds and you've watered it.

And now you see those first little green shoots coming out. It says what you're doing is having some effect. It's generating activity. Now, what those shoots bloom into is a different story. And that's why you need all the other metrics to say what happened after the shoots appeared. What did that plant grow into? And that's why you need more than just marketing metrics, you need outcome metrics.

Darren Wurz (05:07.778)

Hmm. Okay. Great, great. you know, we deal with the the internals of law firms all the time, you know, with our clients, we're we're helping them with their business and their personal finances and helping them figure out where money should go and and what they should be doing and making decisions. What do you see in the industry as best practices as far as how much a firm should spend on marketing? You know, we all know that marketing is getting

More expensive, leads are costing more. give us some guidelines there.

Rafi Arbel (05:42.67)

So the answer to that question depends on the maturity and the revenue of the firm involved. When you're starting out and you don't have much cash flow, you can't devote as high a percentage of your revenue to marketing as you can when you're more mature and your cash flow is much greater. So I would say when you're starting out and your revenue's tight, probably no more than five or ten percent at most.

on the other hand, when your revenue hits seven figures or into the seven figures, then I think it's appropriate to be spending 15 or 20 percent. Now, having said that, it also depends on what the law firm's goals are. I found that there are two categories, maybe three, of law firm owners. There are those who are content with where they're at, they're not looking to grow, they don't have a growth mindset.

They don't want to spend their hard earned cash on the possibility of growing later. And I don't have any problem with those folks. They're just not who we serve. Then there are those that want to sort of dabble and they're not fully committed to marketing, but they're they wanna they want something. And for them, they're gonna spend a little less. They want to spend what they feel is safe. and they're they're still not fully committed, but they've got their feet in the water.

and then there are those who really are treating their law firm like a business. They want to professionalize their revenue operations. And for those people, spending a minimum of 15% is a prerequisite to growth. Additionally, if I may add one more point, Darren, it also depends on your practice area. So a family lawyer need not spend as much or as high a percentage.

of their revenue to achieve similar growth as would a personal injury lawyer. every practice area has a different level of competitiveness online. And the more competitive it is, the harder it is to rank and the harder it is to gain clients and the more you need to spend.

Darren Wurz (07:58.264)

Great, great. So if I was let's say I was just starting out and looking where to spend this money, what would I go to? Is it SEO, is it pay per click, Google, local services ads, social? Is there one that's best?

Rafi Arbel (08:16.622)

you wouldn't this is sort of counterproductive for me, but it's the truth. You you probably shouldn't be doing a lot of SEO or pay per click. Now, let me refine that answer a little bit. Google local service ads are pay per lead. So you don't pay every time that somebody clicks on your ad, you pay every time somebody calls you. So if you have a budget for that.

I would absolutely invest in Google Local Service Ads. but what's more important at the early stages is building your brand, building your reputation, getting more visibility. And oftentimes that's more about outreach and you physically being where your prospective clients are than it is about digital marketing. You could start a new firm and give me all the money in the world.

and I'm not gonna be able to do as good a job for you as I would if you had a brand name. If you were known by the community that you're targeting, your conversion rate for everything digital will improve. So I would say that when you're starting out, spend more time sponsoring local events. Figure out who your ideal client profile is first and foremost, and really zero in on who that person is.

And get to know them firsthand. Be active in the community. Sponsor 5K races. Get an ad out in the church newspaper if they still have those things. And develop your brand in person before you really invest a lot in SEO or Google Ads. Google Ads is a very expensive way of getting clients. So I think digitally what I'd say when you're starting out is

Make sure you have a great website. I think it's worth spending money there. It's a one-time expense. but after that, Google Local Service Ads and then maybe organic social media. I'm not a huge believer in organic social media. I'm a much bigger believer in paid social media, but I think that's part of building your brand and awareness of who you are.

Darren Wurz (10:36.852)

Okay. Speaking of the website, what are some of the the most common leaks that you see? What what is it that makes a website convert and and what are the most common leaks between the click and the phone call?

Rafi Arbell (10:52.014)

So I think perhaps fundamentally the biggest omission most firms have is failure to track. So if your website is set up by somebody that doesn't understand SEO or digital marketing, if they just know how to put together a website so that when you go to the to your domain something shows up, you won't be doing proper tracking.

And without proper tracking, you don't get good data. And without getting good data, you don't know where the leaks are. Once you do have your website prepared correctly so that you can track the traffic, then you could figure out where the leaks are. Then it becomes much easier to solve that problem. But your first source of or your first goal should be proper tracking.

Darren Wurz (11:47.296)

Okay, great, great. let's talk a little bit about the Google business profile and reviews. And I see a lot of law firms that still aren't taking advantage of that. How much do these actually move the needle and what do you recommend there?

Rafi Arbel (12:04.472)

So perhaps I left this out of your last question, and your last question was where would I where would I focus a lawyer's efforts when they're start starting out? It's the same answer that I would give you at any stage of maturity. The currency for law firms is Google Reviews. Those reviews, Google reviews, are what clients trust more than any other source on the web because it's third party.

Parties that are verified that are leaving you a review. So I would make this your number one priority. And even if you don't have money to do SEO, and even if you don't have a website, you could get a Google Business profile. And if you get enough reviews and you respond to those reviews and you have a very high score out of five stars, if it's 4.7 or above,

you will start to get business even without doing any other source of marketing.

Darren Wurz (13:09.186)

Very cool. What do you have any tips for us on optimizing that Google business profile?

Rafi Arbel (13:17.048)

So it turns out that you can this is a slightly different answer to the question you're giving me, but it turns out that Google doesn't require you to only get reviews from prospective clients. So you could have a prospect call you, they could have an unqualified lead, they could be an unqualified lead.

But a lot of lawyers I know are very caring people and they'll spend the time explaining to that person what their rights are and where they should go next and why they can't take the case. And oftentimes those prospects are so thankful that somebody took the time to listen to them. And they say, you know, thank you. I really appreciate that. Well, that's the time to ask for a review. It's not just for existing clients that come to pick up their check.

It's any time somebody in the public is working with you and is happy with your services, that's the time to ask them.

Darren Wurz (14:21.446)

Interesting, interesting. Okay. Remember to ask all those people for reviews. of course, we, you know, have to talk a little bit about AI and how AI is upending things in the world, you know, but how is that changing things for Google search and showing up in search results? Is that still as important? Is it is it changing? Is it going to be less important in the future? Where is all this going?

Rafi Arbel (14:52.034)

When you ask the high volume marketers to tell them where their cases came from, you will unanimously get the same result, which is, yes, we do get cases from AI, but I can count them on one hand. The percentage of trackable cases that come from AI is still insignificant. That's not to say it will be tomorrow.

But as of today, nobody is getting a substantial percentage of their leads from AI. Having said that, that doesn't mean that we can always track every instance where AI influenced their decision. More often than not, we don't track the influence of AI because they might do a search on an AI platform, not

Click through necessarily to the lawyer's site, but independently run a search on Google for the firm's name because they heard about them on AI and then convert. So one thing that I would look at if I were an attorney looking at my data is what's happening to the number of qualified leads that come from direct search, from people either typing their name into Google.

or typing their domain directly into the search box. If that is going up, especially if you're not doing any other offline campaigns, it's a sign that you're showing up more on the AI platforms.

Darren Wurz (16:34.228)

Okay. Okay. Is there anything we can be doing to make sure we're showing up there in AI results? I mean, there are companies that promise to, you know, get you in there. I don't if that's true or not, how much they can promise there, but what can we be doing to optimize our visibility in AI search?

Rafi Arbel (16:55.598)

So you have to be careful because I think that there are many people selling a promise that they can't deliver on. I don't know that anybody, including myself, has figured out how to optimize for the AI platforms. Why? Because there are two parts to showing up on those AI platforms. There are the things that you do to your website.

So how you write your content, having a lot of headers, the schema dot org, that's code that you put on your website that helps the platforms identify the different parts on the web page. Those sorts of things every SEO agency that crafts the website will do as a matter of course. And when they write content, if they know what they're doing, they should be writing for the AI platforms.

So it's not that we can't prepare for and optimize for AI, but all of the things that I'm telling you about only affect their ability to find you a little bit. It turns out that the AI platforms already know about you. They know, I think 96% of the lawyers, they already have them indexed. They they have they they know who you are if they want to give you a mention. They just choose not to.

And why don't they? Because the firms that are getting mentioned are the ones who have worked at building their brands. They've worked at becoming more visible. Now there are tips that you can use to become more visible. If you are found on Super Lawyers and Best Lawyers and some of the other widely cited legal directories, that will help you. So if you're looking for a how-to,

on how to get found on the AI platforms, that's where you should start. And because the number of directories from which AI pulls is so wide, obviously you start with the big ones like Justia, but eventually you should have your name, address and phone number

Rafi Arbel (19:15.148)

widely distributed across many directories and make sure that they're consistent with one another and that they're accurate. So if you're at 2123 circle drive, don't put drive on some directories and DR on others because that will hurt you. Beyond that is a much bigger question. After you've already optimized for the directories, then it's about your brand and your brand you create as a reputation

it's really what are other people saying about you? Can you get cited in the newspaper? All of the things that would get you a Wikipedia page are the sorts of things that will also get you found on the AI platforms, which is to say it's extremely difficult to manipulate the AI algorithms to get found.

like you can on Google search.

Darren Wurz (20:16.76)

So at the end of the day, we need to be doing all the right things, just more of that. Not there's no quick fixes or tricks or things like that. Just all the best practices of good online presence that will get you found on Google. Those and that much more are what's gonna probably translate to AI, correct? Okay. Okay. That's right. I wanna take some time and talk a little bit about intake.

Rafi Arbel (20:37.39)

Exactly.

Darren Wurz (20:42.508)

You know, on our prep call you said you can have you can spend all the money you want on you know, marketing, but if intake isn't doing its job, well, you're not gonna get the results you want. Why do owners keep reaching for that marketing lever first though?

Rafi Arbel (20:56.138)

I think because it's the most visible and it doesn't require any self-reflection. what we found is when we have put our clients into our platform and analyzed where these leads are going, what we're finding, especially for the larger firms that get a lot of volume, is that

they do an exceptionally poor job of follow-up. And there's a reason for it. There's no fault here. For these firms that have high volume, they don't have time to call more than two or three times, send an email and maybe a text message. But when you look at the the leads that they're leaving behind, you'll often find that they have great damages and great liability. And we can see that

Because we could pull up any month's worth of leads and sort by their AI score, because we score every lead. We pull it up, we sort by AI score, and then we look at the AI summary, and we can see that there are there's great liability and great damages, but they didn't have time to call them back a third or fourth time because they were so busy taking in the one to two call closes. So no one ever follows up with that.

So my advice to lawyers is invest in more intake to follow up on these great leads before you spend more money with me to generate more leads that you're never going to follow

Darren Wurz (22:36.172)

Yeah, it's interesting. I talked to a lot of law firm owners who have very ambitious growth goals, right? But then when we drill down to it, it's like, well, could you handle an extra ten clients a month? Well, no, not really. So what what does a good intake follow up process look like when you're looking at how other people do it? What does a good process look like?

Rafi Arbel (23:00.878)

So I heard James Helm from Top Dogs speak at the Business of Law a few days ago and his presentation echoed his the last two or three presentations I heard him speak at. And he's the master of follow up. and what he does is what his firm does is they text the caller and then they do a double dial.

Because lots of people on their cell phones have a setting that sends you directly to voicemail if it's an unrecognized number. I sure do. And you sure do right. Many of us do. But if you text them first and then you double dial, that second call is often the one that goes through and the one that they'll answer. And I think the first time that he gave this presentation, I think he said he does two double dials.

So that he's calling four times in the first five minutes. And doing that will increase your conversion rate considerably.

Darren Wurz (24:06.378)

I bet. Yeah. Okay. Is that what what happens if those don't aren't successful? Should should they be following up continually? Or there what would it what would that process look like?

Rafi Arbel (24:20.366)

So I think every firm has to be comfortable with the level of outreach. But my position is if they reached out to you, then there's almost no sequence of frequency that's too much until they tell you to stop or they accept your call and become a client. So I if it were my firm, I would be calling three times a day for a good lead at different times of the day.

with emails and text messages. I don't think that's too much, but I know I've said that to some law firms and they're they're like, well, we're not ambulance chasers. No, you're not chasing anybody. They called you. So you're responding to their lead. Either run it like a business and maximize your opportunities or don't complain about the results. It's that simple.

Darren Wurz (25:08.396)

Yeah, yeah. Wow. It's competitive out there. Now, you know, once once you get on the phone, the intaker has gotta sell them on the law firm and sign up the case. What are the ingredients of a great intake call from your view?

Rafi Arbel (25:26.008)

So we we actually grade every single call that comes in through through our digital marketing. we grade the intake agents and we grade them in four categories and we grade them against thirty different metrics. And of all those metrics, I think perhaps the one that I would focus on most is active listening and empathy.

Because I think it was Maya Angelo that said, No one cares how much you know until they know how much you care. So intake, every intake agent is in the sales business. They're in the business of convincing that prospective client to trust that law firm with one of the most important decisions they'll ever make in their lifetime.

Yeah. And so if you aren't actively listening and if you're not empathetic, it's going to be very hard for them to trust you. And we see this more often than not with intake agents that handle a high volume, that get calloused over time, and are insensitive to these very terrible situations that they hear over and over again, they lose their heart.

And so if you are not monitoring every call to make sure people are actively listening, eventually that callousness is going to seep in and it's going to affect your conversion rate.

Darren Wurz (27:03.746)

What a great point. Yeah. you you've got to be monitoring those calls and checking in on those calls. I know a lot of law firm owners who don't, who haven't in a long time, and then they do, and then they're very surprised. I also love what you said. You know, you don't you don't have to teach these people to be, you know, the wolf of Wall Street. simply active listening and empathy. I mean, who would have thought? Just those two things right there. I mean, anybody can do that, I think, right? You don't have to take a a sales

Genius to have active listening and empathy.

Rafi Arbel (27:36.492)

Right. Basic hum humanity.

Darren Wurz (27:39.586)

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. so and how how would we what's the best way from your view of different law firms and how different law firms do it? what's the best way to compensate and motivate your intakers? in compensation? What should we do?

Rafi Arbel (27:58.637)

Love this.

Rafi Arbel (28:03.768)

So what we suggest and and we give this tool actually to our clients is having a Jumbotron in their room where the intake agents are, or if they're remote, giving them easy access to the Jumbotron that gives them their score in terms of how many calls they took in, how many qualified leads they took in, how many they closed.

how many at-risk leads they have, and several other metrics. so for starters, that at least lets them know how they're doing next to the bunch. Yeah. But your bigger question is how do you compensate them? And I would strongly suggest that especially for senior intake agents who do a good job, that you significantly reduce their base salary

And pay them a much higher bonus for every signed client. Because ask yourself really what's the value of a signed client, and how much would you pay a third party to sign up that lead? Because oftentimes you're paying your internal staff significantly less, but the case is worth no less to you. So reduce their base salary, give them a high incentive.

And let them make a hundred thousand dollars. Let them let them feel great and earn a lot of money. You'll never lose them. They'll be indebted to you because most people just offer them a a big enough base salary to keep them happy, but not enough to incentivize them to work. So treat them like they're in sales. Now, when you start somebody new, you're not gonna be able to do that as well. You're gonna have to give them a bigger base, but tell them that's only temporary.

Give them a schedule, after which they're gonna be weaned from that big base and in exchange they're gonna have to earn their salary.

Darren Wurz (30:08.45)

Great advice, Rafa. Yeah. Appreciate that so much. Well, we unfortunately are coming close to the end of our time here. I've got two rapid fire questions for you though before we go. first, do you have an AI tip of the week or AI trick of the week?

Rafi Arbel (30:26.732)

An AI tip of the week.

Darren Wurz (30:31.17)

Is there a way you're using AI more recently that has been very productive for you that you could recommend to others?

Rafi Arbel (30:42.07)

I think n nothing that I haven't previously talked about today. I don't know that there are other than the things that we've discussed, I don't know that there are easy solutions to getting found for AI other than make sure that your website is properly designed and that you are showing up in the directories.

Darren Wurz (31:07.542)

Okay, great. And how about a book? Is there a book that you can recommend to our audience? Maybe something you're reading right now that you're finding very useful in your own business growth or maybe one of your favorites from from long ago?

Rafi Arbel (31:24.376)

Hmm.

Rafi Arbel (31:28.032)

I wasn't ready for this one.

Darren Wurz (31:29.582)

Rafi Arbel (31:32.034)

I read a lot of articles, trade publications on on the business. and I have a weekly summary of sort of more academic articles. And oftentimes I'm reading from McKinsey or Harvard Business Review because they talk about AI and what the trends are in AI. And

more often than not, what I'm reading about now is that AI is no longer an advantage because everybody has AI, it's everywhere. What gives firms an advantage is know-how. So if you if you're not asking the right questions, you're never going to get the right answers. And so having a deep understanding of your subject matter.

And then using AI as an extension of that knowledge is really where the benefit comes from for practitioners. if you don't know the right questions to ask, you'll never be able to know if the answers AI are giving you are are correct. And so they gave an example of a of a company, not a firm, but this is equally applicable to a law firm where they had a

chemical engineer that had a certain process and way of doing something. And they were able to capture that process in AI and then apply it to every instance where that situation came up without the engineer having to be there. And that's the sort of advantage that you can build with AI as a force multiplier instead of just saying we use AI because everyone's using

Darren Wurz (33:24.411)

Sure, sure. Great advice, Rafi. Well, is there anything else you'd like to share with our audience before we go?

Rafi Arbel (33:31.459)

no. No, I think we covered a lot and I appreciate the opportunity to be here.

Darren Wurz (33:37.6)

Absolutely. Why don't you share with our listeners where they can find you if they would like to look you up?

Rafi Arbel (33:43.722)

Sure, if you'd like to talk with me more, my number is 312-970-9353, or you can email me at Rafi, R A F like Franki, at market M-A-R-K-E-T, J D like Jack Daniels.com. Rafi at market jd.com. All right.

Darren Wurz (34:06.158)

All right. Thanks, Rafi, for joining us.

Rafi Arbel (34:08.747)

My pleasure. Thanks for having me.

Darren Wurz (34:10.562)

Alright, a huge thank you to Rafi Arbel, former practicing attorney and founder of Market JD, where he helps law firm owners connect their marketing to sign cases. You can find all the links to connect with him and learn more in today's show notes. We also have a lot of great resources in those show notes, so do go and check those out. The big lesson here today: until you invest another dollar in leads, you've got to get your intake fixed first. And then it's all about follow-up. Text first, double dial, four calls in the first five minutes.

a lot of great advice. Here at the Lawyer Millionaire, we help law firm owners make great smart strategic business decisions that connect everything together. Your marketing, your intake, your own paycheck, to your own wealth building and retirement planning. We put financial planning, tax strategy, and business advisor all together in one all in one team. So a number like fifteen percent of revenue isn't just a marketing decision.

It's a decision about the full picture. Growth that never reaches your pocket is just more work. If today's conversation hit home, we'd love to chat with you about your own big picture. Book a call with us using the link in the show notes. And if you're not quite ready for an intro call, go ahead and join our weekly newsletter. A lot of great tips and advice that we share there on all these topics, and you'll also find out about all of our great upcoming events.

We've got some marketing strategy events and some business leadership events that you will definitely want to take advantage of. So go ahead and sign up for that. Well, that's it for today, friend. And remember one thing. If your law firm isn't building you wealth and freedom, well, what the hell are you doing? Can I get an amen out there? Now, go make it happen, and I'll see you next time.