The Lawyer You're Afraid to Fire is Holding Your Firm's Profit Hostage (Ep. 186)
For many law firm owners, growing a business means bringing in more clients, increasing billable hours, and hiring more attorneys and support staff. But what happens when a firm has plenty of work and still struggles to achieve the profitability its owner expects?
According to Jimmy Evans, founder of Evans Family Law Group, the answer may have less to do with marketing or client acquisition and more to do with the people inside the firm.
On this episode, host Darren Wurz sits down with Jimmy to discuss how he transformed his law firm's culture, redefined its core values, and invested in employee development to build a stronger, more profitable business.
His experience offers an important lesson for law firm owners: A firm's profitability depends not just on how much work it generates, but on how effectively its people deliver that work.
The Purge: When Growing a Law Firm Requires a Cultural Reset
For years, Jimmy Evans hired people primarily because his firm had work to do and needed additional hands to handle the workload.
The focus was on finding experienced employees who could step in and get the job done. However, there was a significant gap between hiring people to perform tasks and building a team that shared the firm's vision.
Jimmy expected employees to adopt his standards for client communication, legal strategy, creativity, and excellence without formally defining those expectations or investing enough in training.
Over time, this created cultural and performance challenges.
The turning point came when Jimmy and his wife examined the firm's financial situation. Despite strong client demand and a steady flow of new business, the firm was struggling internally.
They realized the problem was not a lack of clients or visibility. It was a culture and work ethic problem.
That realization led to what Jimmy calls "The Purge."
Over approximately a year, he began addressing toxic workplace behaviors, removing employees who were not aligned with the firm's values, and setting clear expectations for everyone.
The process was difficult. Some of the employees he needed to let go were also producing revenue.
But Jimmy came to understand that retaining people simply because they generated income could prevent the firm from becoming the business he wanted it to be.
Two years later, he describes the difference as transformative.
Why Defining Core Values Is Essential to Law Firm Growth
One of the biggest lessons Jimmy learned was that a firm's values cannot remain unspoken expectations in the owner's mind.
If a law firm owner wants employees to deliver excellent work, communicate effectively, and approach cases creatively, those standards must be clearly defined and consistently reinforced.
At Evans Family Law Group, the core values include:
Strategic thinking: Developing thoughtful, effective legal strategies for clients.
High-quality communication: Keeping clients informed and addressing their concerns proactively.
Creativity: Exploring different approaches to litigation and problem-solving.
Consistency and momentum: Keeping cases moving forward with purpose.
Professional excellence: Developing attorneys who aspire to become exceptional family law litigators.
These values reflect a broader philosophy: the firm should focus on protecting what matters most to its clients rather than simply maximizing billable hours.
Jimmy emphasizes that clients are real people facing important life decisions. The firm's responsibility is to deliver thoughtful, high-quality representation while respecting the financial realities of legal services.
For law firm owners, the lesson is straightforward: Core values become meaningful when they shape everyday decisions, employee behavior, and client service.
Hire for Work Ethic and Potential, Not Just Experience
Another major shift at Evans Family Law Group was the approach to hiring.
Previously, Jimmy focused heavily on finding attorneys and paralegals with experience in family law who could begin producing quickly.
He eventually realized that professional experience alone did not guarantee the qualities he wanted in his team.
He began prioritizing characteristics such as:
A strong work ethic and personal drive.
A genuine desire to become excellent at the profession.
A willingness to learn and accept feedback.
Commitment to client service and communication.
The ability to think strategically and creatively.
This change opened the door to hiring attorneys from other legal practice areas, including personal injury and criminal prosecution.
Although these attorneys did not necessarily have family law experience, Jimmy believed he could teach them the technical aspects of the practice if they already possessed the right mindset and commitment.
The approach reflects a key distinction between skills that can be taught and personal qualities that are harder to develop through training.
For law firm owners, this means considering not only what a candidate can do today but also what they are capable of becoming with the right guidance.
The Incubator and Accelerator: Investing in Employee Training
Hiring the right people was only one part of the transformation. Jimmy also recognized that employees needed a structured system to learn the firm's culture, processes, and professional standards.
This led to the creation of two training programs: the Incubator and the Accelerator.
1. The Incubator: First 90 Days
New employees spend their first 90 days in an intensive training program before working independently on cases.
The focus is on:
Learning the firm's culture, systems, and core values.
Observing experienced team members.
Understanding how the firm communicates with clients.
Learning how the firm's standards are applied in everyday work.
2. The Accelerator: Next 90 Days
Attorneys move into a second 90-day phase focused on developing their legal expertise.
The program includes:
Regular meetings with Jimmy.
Reviewing continuing legal education materials and professional articles.
Discussing recent court decisions and substantive legal issues.
Developing the knowledge and judgment needed for effective litigation.
After these six months, the firm works to provide attorneys with more courtroom experience.
Jimmy acknowledges that this approach requires an upfront investment. New employees are not fully productive during their first 90 days, and training takes time and resources.
However, he believes that investing in employee development early can prevent costly mistakes, improve work quality, and reduce the problems that arise when employees are expected to perform without adequate preparation.
The training system also helps employees feel supported rather than simply being thrown into demanding roles without guidance.
How a Stronger Team Can Improve Law Firm Profitability
The cultural transformation at Evans Family Law Group had financial implications beyond employee satisfaction.
Jimmy reports improvements in revenue and profitability, along with a reduction in accounts receivable and the effort required to collect outstanding payments.
He attributes these changes to improvements in the quality of the team's work, communication, and overall performance.
A stronger team also brought more creativity and strategic thinking to litigation, helping the firm deliver better service to clients.
These improvements created opportunities for the firm to share financial benefits with key employees and begin exploring partnership tracks.
The experience illustrates several ways team development can affect a firm's financial performance:
1. Better work quality
Employees who understand expectations and receive proper training are better positioned to produce high-quality work and avoid preventable mistakes.
2. Improved collections
Clear communication and better client relationships can help reduce payment delays and the need to chase outstanding accounts.
3. Greater operational efficiency
A well-trained team can handle responsibilities more effectively, reducing the time owners spend correcting problems and supervising basic tasks.
4. Stronger long-term growth
A firm with a capable, aligned team can create clearer opportunities for employee advancement, leadership development, and potential partnerships.
Jimmy's experience reinforces the idea that profitability is not simply a matter of increasing revenue. It also depends on the quality of the people and systems responsible for delivering the firm's services.
Why Law Firm Owners Need to Address Performance Problems Early
One of the most difficult responsibilities of leadership is confronting employees who are not meeting expectations.
Jimmy admits that he previously overlooked problems because he needed the employees and feared losing the revenue they generated.
Over time, he realized that allowing misalignment to continue could create a toxic environment and affect the entire team.
His advice is to address performance issues as early and directly as possible.
This means clearly communicating expectations, providing feedback, and determining whether an employee is willing and able to meet the firm's standards.
If the relationship is no longer a good fit, a leader may need to make the difficult decision to part ways.
Jimmy emphasizes that these decisions do not need to be hostile. He has tried to maintain respectful relationships with former employees while recognizing that some people may be better suited to other work environments.
The broader lesson is that avoiding difficult conversations can create bigger problems for the business over time.
Making Core Values Part of Everyday Work
Defining values is only the beginning. The real challenge is making sure those values influence how the team operates every day.
At Evans Family Law Group, this begins during the hiring process.
Candidates go through multiple interview rounds, allowing existing team members to assess whether they align with the firm's expectations.
The firm also puts its expectations in writing so employees understand what is required of them.
Once employees join, the Incubator program reinforces those values through observation, training, and practical application.
Jimmy also regularly reviews case files, client communications, and legal work. When he identifies an issue, he addresses it directly with the employee involved and uses the situation as an opportunity for feedback and improvement.
Over time, he has found that employees are more receptive to feedback when they understand that the goal is to help them become better professionals.
This creates a culture where accountability and professional development work together.
Using AI in Legal Practice: A Tool That Requires Human Judgment
The conversation also explores how Evans Family Law Group has begun incorporating artificial intelligence into its legal work.
Jimmy explains that AI has become useful for organizing case timelines and preparing for larger trials, helping the firm save time and money.
However, he stresses that AI must be used carefully, particularly when handling confidential client information.
He also warns against relying on AI without verifying its output.
In litigation, understanding the judge, reading the courtroom, and making strategic decisions require professional judgment that AI cannot replace.
For Jimmy, AI is most useful when it supports the work of an experienced attorney rather than attempting to substitute for legal expertise.
The lesson for law firm owners is to identify where AI can improve efficiency while maintaining appropriate oversight, confidentiality, and professional accountability.
Conclusion: Build the People, and They Will Build the Business
Jimmy Evans' experience at Evans Family Law Group highlights an important principle of law firm leadership: sustainable profitability depends on more than client acquisition and billable hours.
It requires a team that understands the firm's mission, shares its values, and has the training and support needed to deliver excellent work.
By redefining expectations, changing his hiring approach, investing in employee development, and addressing cultural problems directly, Jimmy built a stronger foundation for his firm's growth.
For law firm owners looking to improve profitability, the starting point may not be another marketing campaign or a higher billing target.
It may be taking a closer look at the people, systems, and culture inside the business.
Because when you invest in building the right team, you create the conditions for better client service, stronger operations, and a more profitable law firm.
Resources:
Profit First - Transform Your Business from a Cash-Eating Monster to a Money-Making Machine by Mike Michalowicz (Book)
Law Firm Financial Reporting Template Pack (Exclusive content)
Connect with Darren Wurz:
Connect with Jimmy Evans:
Linkedin: Ellen Cookman
Website: Cookman Law
About Jimmy Evans:
James W. Evans is a board-certified family law attorney and the founder of Evans Family Law Group. With over 25 years of experience, he has built a reputation as a trusted advocate for Texas families navigating divorce, custody, and complex family law matters.
Jimmy’s practice encompasses the full range of Texas family law, including Austin divorce attorney, child custody, child support, adoption, grandparents’ rights, mediation, and collaborative law.
His philosophy is simple yet impactful: “Protecting What Matters Most.”
Clients choose Evans Family Law Group not just for the firm’s legal expertise, but for its commitment to serving with integrity, compassion, and clarity. Jimmy’s excellence has earned him numerous accolades, including the BV Distinguished Peer Review Rating™ from Martindale-Hubbell® and recognition as a Super Lawyers® honoree for 16 consecutive years — most recently in 2026. This distinction, awarded to only 5% of attorneys in Texas, affirms his standing as one of the top professionals in the field of Family Law.
His decades of experience and dedication to his clients’ well-being make him a go-to advocate for families in Austin and beyond. When families need an experienced advocate who understands their challenges and is committed to achieving meaningful outcomes, they turn to James W. Evans and the team at Evans Family Law Group.
Transcript:
Darren Wurz (00:00.268)
What if the producer you're most afraid to lose is the one holding your profit hostage? And the fix starts with letting them go. All right, hello, listener, and welcome back to the Lawyer Millionaire Podcast. I'm your host, Darren Wurz. I'm excited that you are here today because we have a special guest with us, Jimmy Evans of Evans Family Law Group. Jimmy, welcome to the show.
Jimmy Evans (00:24.586)
Hi, Darren. Thank you for inviting me. I appreciate it. I don't know how special I am, but you know, I'm just I'm I'm a guest. He happens to be a listener of your show.
Darren Wurz (00:32.222)
Awesome. Well you're very humble and we're very excited that you're here. I want to start off with a big question. You have done something really radical in your law firm called the Purge. Can you tell us a little bit about that?
Jimmy Evans (00:45.722)
how'd you hear about that?
Darren Wurz (00:48.3)
I think you mentioned that to me on our on our pre recording call.
Jimmy Evans (00:52.236)
You know, for I think I'm one of the key target members of your audience, right? Like I'm a I'm I'm the name on the door. I'm an owner of a law firm. I don't want to go into numbers because it's public, but you know, we're we're right within your key audience and and it took a lot of years to get to where we are, a lot of trial and error. And what I would tell you one of the concepts that we probably I would have guessed we're gonna talk about today is you've got to get to a point where you want to
run your business based on your culture, your vision. And you've got to define that. Because for so many years I hired people just to put the butts in the seat, right? To do work, just to you know, to build because we had work to do. I wasn't hiring within a core mission. I wasn't hiring within a value system. I mean I I knew what my values were and I was pushing my docket the way I would have done it.
But I was sort of just expecting through osmosis others to just catch up and and read my mind. I never sat back and and invested in training, invested in a mission and a core statement, a core value, in metrics, in setting expectations, because the fear factor would kick in that if you lose these producers, that you know, the the whole business just tanks. Yeah. And what I learned at some point was
you know, for the business to really be the business that I want it to be, I needed to define my core values of what made the me and the business successful, what got us here. And it's okay to transmit and train and set those expectations on the other, on the rest of the team. And if you can't meet those expectations, it's okay if you go find another place to work.
And that was a really scary decision to make, you know, once I set those values and decided what that mission statement was going to be, which was to set high expectations for high quality, high creative work, strategy, excellence and litigation. I mean, all the things that I think made me successful for my clients. And about two and a half plus years ago, I decided that I would impose those, set those standards, set those core values and
Jimmy Evans (03:11.53)
I just politely asked people to either meet those standards or don't. And if you don't, the ask was, you know, to go find another place to work. And so we we spent about a year of purging, that's why I call it the purge, of getting things out of the office that were toxic, the gossipy stuff, people who weren't aligned with those values for one reason or another or just weren't working, or people who weren't meeting those expectations, but
holding me hostage for a raise, you know, but but not putting in the extra value and the extra investment and time to really meet those values and those expectations. I I had a lot of people who were just it felt to me like were just trying to be an employee and work towards their next vacation and not trying to become great at what they at what I wanted them to become great at. And that's being an excellent family law litigation attorney. It was a really hard decision to make because they, you know
People are producers and that's what generates income. But the where we are today, two years later, to almost two years later, night and day. And I would encourage your business owners to, you know, if they're struggling with that, to hopefully hear what I'm saying and don't be afraid and don't be held hostage to define your core values and your mission statement and ask people to get aligned with that because you will find the right people.
And and as a business owner in the moment, when you've got somebody who's you know, a decent team member but not really aligned with those values, you it it's really scary to let that person go. But at the end of the day, I can assure you I'm I'm living in proof that if you set those values and you set a mission statement and you reset and you start going out to find people and you hire based on that mission, I mean
It it's so true and trivial what they say, but what a difference a year makes. And in this case, almost two years. I mean, we have an incredible team and we've we've invested now in a in a very significant training system and putting our team through a very rigorous training program for a six months. And I can describe it if you want to go into it, but that that's what the purge was.
Darren Wurz (05:24.384)
Yeah, that's great. You know, boy, it's tough being a leader, isn't it?
Jimmy Evans (05:28.224)
It's not always what people think it is.
Darren Wurz (05:30.912)
Yeah, there's so much more that goes into it, you know, and and so many new skill sets and you have to be willing to confront people and and be be honest and upfront about the culture that that you are, you know, trying to create. Well, tell us a little bit about what's kind of the the size of your your firm now. How many how many folks do you have on the team now?
Jimmy Evans (05:49.806)
Let's see. Today we have five attorneys, including myself. we have one, two, three, four paralegals. my wife works with me, who's our operations, you know, chief administrative officer or whatever you want to call that, but she's basically our CO. and and then we have three other admin support staff. So I think that's what, thirteen, fourteen, something like that.
We just opened a new office in Georgetown, Texas. It's about a thirty eighty minute drive from our Austin principal office. And we're working to put plans in place to hire and staff that office soon. So probably by the end of fall or by January for sure, our goal is to have that office staffed up.
Darren Wurz (06:31.714)
Great, great. So, you know, you were you were growing the firm, you had this culture you didn't like. Was there a a moment in time where you finally were like, Okay, we've gotta do something about this?
Jimmy Evans (06:44.972)
Yeah, I mean, it it became clear to me at at one point I had a I I had a not so great relationship with a business manager at the time who was just constantly talking to me about how the sky was falling. And yet I was constantly billing, you know, 160, 180 hours a month, you know, and I I was wondering like, how can the sky be falling? Because we had lots of intake, lots of new business.
And ultimately my wife and I sat down and we really studied the numbers and what we realized was we didn't have a business problem. We didn't have a reputation problem. We didn't even have like an internet, like an SEO problem. We were getting found. And this is before Chat GPT and all that really came along. We had a culture problem. You know, we had a work ethic problem. We had people who just weren't driven to be great and to be really good, which is how I created the practice.
And ultimately that decision just had to be made to go build that culture and build that core mission. And I think when you and I were talking about in our pre-meeting, I, you know, I hired a business coach, Melissa Shanahan. I don't know if I'm allowed to say that on your show, but Melissa Shanahan, so we hired a business coach and she helped us to define all those core values. And then we that was right at the same time the purge was happening. And then we went with Gusto, all gas, no breaks, as they say.
on that core mission and to build a team inside of that core mission.
Darren Wurz (08:13.356)
Yeah, absolutely. You know, having done all of this and having kind of recreated the team, there's a lot of soft benefits. I've heard you mention, you know, y you have a team that works harder. what about the the financials? I mean, I'm I'm sure you have seen an impact. Tell us what what a kind of an impact this has had for you. You know, has it had an impact revenue wise, profit wise? I mean, you don't have to give us exact numbers, but maybe you can describe the kind of the impact that that has made for you.
Jimmy Evans (08:40.812)
Yeah, it all of those the answers are yes to all of those. I mean, obviously I don't want to go into those numbers on a public show, but I mean, but the answer is yes. And but account receivables have gone down, you know. I mean, chasing accounts and chasing payments go down because of the quality of the team that you have. You have, you know, double the creativity, double the team that can put in creative strategy, the work and the communication, the litigation and the results in court when we're a litigation firm.
I mean, everything has improved. And when all of that improves, you know, that it floats all boats, right? So yes, revenue increases, profit increases. as an owner, I've been able to benefit from that. But I've also been able to give back to staff that have been with me and key team players. we've that's always been a goal of mine, ironically, is to give some of that back to my team. And so we're in the process of doing that, but it also creates a structure where now we can start talking about
the partnership tracks because we have the we have the data now that we can show these guys that when you decide to come on board if that's the path you want, you know, here's what the revenue stream would look like. And now we have real numbers and it's it's healthy. So
Darren Wurz (09:55.138)
Yeah, that's great. And it's so relevant right now because we just finished the book The Great Game of Business by Jack Stack. And kind of our our mini theme in the broader theme this year, which is profit on purpose, we're talking about profit together and how do we get, you know, how do we get the team involved and how do we get, you know, profit is about everybody. And how do we get everybody striving for the business itself to become more financially successful? So
You know, the the team is a is a critical part of your profitability. So I I love the relevance here.
Jimmy Evans (10:31.868)
man, the team is the core, you know, the core essence of it all. And, you know, like you know, build the people, they will build the business. And I've learned the value of that, but I've also overcome the fear of setting the expectations. I mean, I think that's the key for your listening audience is you've got to get over the fear of somebody holding you hostage. They're gonna quit, they're gonna leave if you don't pay me another ten thousand dollars or whatever. I mean, if they don't meet those criteria and they don't meet those metrics, they just don't. Yeah. You know? Yeah.
Darren Wurz (11:02.447)
how did the team react? I mean how let's let's talk about specifics. Like how did you roll this out and what was the reaction to to rolling out here are our core values?
Jimmy Evans (11:14.904)
Well, the first was when I started hiring, I would explain those core values and I I I was probably overly blunt. in because I I'm infamously known inside the office that I don't want to hire young people ever, ever again. you know, there is clearly among business owners the same problem. You know, I don't know if you call it the Gen Y or Gen Z generation, whatever it is, but there is a serious lack of work ethic. And so I tried not to hire certain people.
But you know, the but I would explain our core values right up front. And those who could overcome that kind of first reaction of mine, and trying to get past the work ethic and and making sure they're committed to those work values, you know, then we would start working on terms and and hiring conditions and the role inside the firm and all that. But the way we changed it was instead of me being the first point of contact.
We actually made people start going through basically three rounds of interviews. and so the more interviews, the more touches with the different team members that have been around a long time and understand those core values, then by the time they get past to me to do that final interview, the other team members have already vouched for that person. So that that made a huge difference in the interviewing process.
And then you just you've just got to be clear when you're interviewing that this is the culture, this is the metrics, this is, you know, these are the expectations. We put that in writing and had people sign off on that and made sure they understood those things. So it it's made a lot of difference. Now for the team members who were already here, when we changed that, we sat down and met with them, had it all in writing and presented it to them and explained to them the data and how it works and how they would be measured.
but those team members who had already been here and were already committed to those values, it just wasn't an issue. It was really much more of the same, but now it was just in writing. The rest of it, honestly, Darren, was hiring people who into the culture and who would commit to it. And that's that's been the biggest difference.
Darren Wurz (13:24.493)
Did anyone surprise you? Were there any ones any of them that you thought would would leave and then ended up getting their act together?
Jimmy Evans (13:32.776)
Mm. If I'm being completely honest, no. I mean those those were that that was part of the purge. Yeah. because I just committed to the fact that if you were sort of on the bubble but you really weren't committed, I I I love you, but it's this just not gonna work. You know? And the people that so there and the answer is no in short, there really weren't any surprises because the core three or four people who were here and we've been around each other for a long time and
have long since been committed to those values. It just wasn't a change at all. We just, you know, went to work the next day.
Darren Wurz (14:08.236)
Yeah. Yeah. The the people who are on your team who you you kind of knew knew that you needed to get rid of, how did they get on your team? I mean, was there was it just that you didn't have a process that you have now and so they kind of, you know, snuck by or or they, you know, presented better in the interviewing process than you thought they were gonna be? What what was the story there?
Jimmy Evans (14:31.938)
Think the main reason the way to answer that is just we didn't have we were not hiring. I I'll take responsibility. I was not interviewing or hiring with that mission and that core value and that purpose in mind. I was hiring people because we had work to do, I needed help. And if you looked like and felt like you had the experience, you know, let's let's go to work. And then the problem was I was expecting people to just up through osmosis.
you know, take my core values and take the way that I would communicate with a client or strategize a case or whatever and expect them to do the same. And then that's where the gap was happening. And we started running into issues with that. And we changed that now with how about a a year and a half ago we implemented a program called the Incubator. And the incubator is where no matter who you are,
When you get hired at Evans Family Law Group, you spend ninety days inside of a very intensive training program. And it's with Ashley in my office, and she supervises that. And you don't get to touch a case until you've been in that intensive training for the first ninety days. And that first ninety days is all about learning our culture, our systems, our values.
observing people and how they work, learning, you know, just learning the business and the and those values and watching them in play in re you know, like when others are implementing them with a client. And we don't turn you loose until you've at least done those ninety days. The next ninety days for my attorneys is what I call the accelerator program. And the accelerator program is where I meet with them typically once a week and we're taking CLE articles, professional articles, we're taking
you know, recent cases that are coming down or handed down and we're we're talking about substantive areas of the law, and I'm teaching them, you know, and we're having very substantive discussions about very specific topics. So it's very substantive related for those next 90 days. And then after that, we do everything we can to get them as much court experience as possible. So it's it's made a lot of difference, you know, because the the training, the investment in the training.
Jimmy Evans (16:45.804)
was a huge gap of ours, but it turns out that's like one of the number one values that people crave. they're leaving these other firms because they just get thrown in. They were doing what I was doing. They're just getting thrown in and expected to be great, but not given any kind of tools or training or, you know, of how to do it. And so that the incubator and the accelerator has made a huge difference.
Darren Wurz (17:08.482)
Very cool. And how long did it take you to develop these programs?
Jimmy Evans (17:13.898)
well I w it it was a process in over the course of going into the summer of twenty twenty five, where we when we had our first business coach conference session, we were able to finally put in words what we had been thinking going into that conference. We didn't know what we were saying, but when we spent the time those couple of days in that conference and we were able to define those core values.
Ashley and I came up with the idea of this incubator and then from and she was willing to run with it. I give her a hundred percent credit for sure because she's the one that's in there in the trenches with them every day. And it's made such a difference in the overall quality of the employee, how they treat clients, how they approach cases, how they approach their day, made a huge difference. And so it it was already something we were talking about, but honestly we didn't know how to put it in words.
And with that that conference just made a difference when it all just started coming together and we were whiteboarding everything and we were like, you know, that's let's call it the incubator. And it came to life when we came back from that. We just committed to doing it. And we had not hired up the team that we have now. On that day, we'd actually hired the first team member that we have today, and we came back and put him in the incubator. and then we had hired the next attorney, I think within about
four weeks, five weeks after that, and then we put him in the incubator, and then it just started going from there. And then we later, after those guys had all we we put four of the attorneys through the incubator, and then we started putting the paralegals through the incubator. And so we put everybody retroactive who had already been on the team but didn't go through the incubator up front. We made all of them go through it later. It's just been it's been a remarkable difference.
Darren Wurz (19:09.292)
Yeah, that's an incredible accomplishment. having it creating it and implementing it because you know, there are so many law firm owners who are probably listening to the show are like, boy, that sounds like a lot of work.
Jimmy Evans (19:22.722)
Well, it it is not and not only is it a lot of work, and again Ashley gets most of the credit for it, but it's also it hits your pocketbook because these guys aren't really producing, you know, for the first ninety days. And but what I've learned is if you have a I don't want to say mediocre, but let's just say you have somebody who's, you know, medium quality, but you don't train them up front and you don't invest in that time and you don't create a high
quality team member, right? Attorney, fair legal, whatever. And then they start causing problems because they don't know any different. They don't know any better. They don't know how you structure and how you do things. And what I've learned is that, you know, things start to happen and it ends up costing you probably as much or more money than if I'd have stopped and done that training up front. Mm-hmm.
And I learned to just commit to that to say, you know what, I'm just gonna commit to those first ninety days to get the quality product when they start on the ninety first day. And that has turned out to be correct.
Darren Wurz (20:30.232)
Very cool. What so what are the if you if you have them handy or you know them off off the top of your head, the core values that you created, that that you distilled, what are those core values?
Jimmy Evans (20:41.986)
Well, str strategy and high quality communication is probably the first one. I mean, that's the number one complaint, as you probably know, in the attorney world, is that clients don't feel like there's strong communication. we we so we emphasize that. We emphasize strategy, we emphasize creativity here, we emphasize rhythm and cases and keeping them moving, and then
On top of all that is the is the drive to be really good. Cause I'm not hiring you to I'm no longer hiring you to just be an associate attorney. I'm hiring you to be an excellent family law litigation attorney. I'm hiring you to become board certified. I'm hiring you to develop a name and a reputation. And I'd love for you to stay here and keep that here and we partner up and own it together.
But I'm not hiring you to just be an associate just to come make a paycheck. And so those in a nutshell is is what I'm I'm trying to what what the expectations that we've set. So I expect strategy and excellent communication and strategy with clients. I mean it is rare here that we get complaints about communication. I expect you to try every possible way to implement that strategy through creativity, right? And in the courtroom. And
you because we can get together and talk about how to be creative. There's too many family law firms out there. I call them flag planting firms, if you want me to explain that. But there's all these flag planting firms that are hiring people just to do work, just to take advantage of the billing and the volume. And they don't really care about the quality and the creativity and the outcome. I mean, I I I just see it too often. They're driven by billing metrics.
And not by how it ultimately affects the outcome or that person. And we want to treat people as a person. Our s our slogan is protect what matters most. And inside that mission, we want to develop a creative strategy that can get you to that place, right? and but at the same time respect billing and respect the costs and at the same time have quali high quality communications.
Jimmy Evans (22:57.664)
And to do everything we possibly can to make that happen in court. But we never want to be driven here by just billing. We want to be driven first by that's a real person. This is their life. We are protecting what matters most. And sometimes you run into situations where billing's an issue, but we just have to do the right thing for somebody. And we have to take the next step and we just got to do the right thing. That doesn't mean as an associate attorney, you just pull the plug. I that's what other firms do. We want to do things different.
And that's a side note, Darren. I don't know you know the song the singer Riley Green, if you even listen to country music, but he's got a song that can I was driving through up for a baseball tournament with my son one time last year, and his song came on different round here. And I I as I was listening to the song, I go, you know, that that's it. We just do things different around here. And I immediately hit the pause button and told my wife, like, that's it.
I mean we need to embrace that culture because doing things different is what got us here. That's what got us to the Evans family law group and we want other team members to buy into that. And so I don't know, that's a longer answer to the question, but
Darren Wurz (24:10.555)
Yeah, well you you have your theme song now, so that's cool. Yeah.
Jimmy Evans (24:15.134)
Probably not popular with everybody. I d you know, but
Darren Wurz (24:18.858)
Yeah, cool, cool. how do you take these core values, like let's say high quality communication? How do you then, you know, measure, how do you how do you make a core value like that come to life? Do you have certain metrics that you're looking at? How how are you measuring that on an ongoing basis?
Jimmy Evans (24:37.1)
Well, it's hard to put metrics on that one because it's largely an intangible kind of metric. But I work way too much. My name's on the door. My kids are in college. They're grown. My wife and I are empty nesters and she works for me. That's a short answer of saying I'm constantly touching these files. I have so many ways of looking into them remotely and electronically that I'm constantly measuring
that, you know, I'm constantly going in and looking at the communications, the filings, the drafting, you know, the email and and all that. And it's getting better and better and better and better. And all I can say is that when you catch something in real time, I I'm now I'm willing and committed to I go straight to that person on the other side of the office and say, Hey, let's talk about what just happened here. You know, and everybody here now
In the past I had people be very defensive when I'm really just trying to teach and make you better. I have a team now that receives that feedback and runs with it, improves on it. And that's that's a huge difference. So I it's hard to put a metric on it other than it's really rare to receive complaints about communication. And that's probably the metric. When that happens, you know, which is rare, I immediately go to that that team, the paralegal, the attorney.
and jump on it and make sure that we address that and and teach them how to reframe how to approach it and how to be proactive and get ahead of that. And it's it's it's made a difference.
Darren Wurz (26:09.44)
How do you communicate these values on a regular basis rather than them just being, you know, a poster on the wall? How are you like in actively trying to embed these in the culture on a regular basis?
Jimmy Evans (26:24.664)
Well, it starts out through that interview process, you know, because I'm I'm immediately trying to filter them out, to be honest with you. I basically just tell after they've gone through the first two or three rounds, I always I you know, I start to just tell them, Yep, you're not gonna make it here. I mean, you you know, you you don't have the work ethic. You don't have the drive. I mean, you just won't make it. And every team member that's here ha you know, had that speech from me and every one of them had, you know, passed that test, if you will.
and so it starts the answer to your question, it starts there. Because once we get past that initial shock of I you know, maybe they think I'm being rude. If they think I'm just being rude, then you know that's probably not gonna work. If they receive that feedback for what it really is and why I'm saying it, then every one of those conversations has turned into a genuine compl just a genuine conversation. So it starts there. Then the real answer is the incubator takes over.
And in the incubator for ninety days, I'm I'm saying ninety, literally ninety days. You can't do anything without the oversight and specifically being tasked by myself or Ashley. And inside the incubator is exactly that. Every day you're being taught and asked to learn, to vocalize, articulate, and to watch others implement those values in everyday, you know, case in everyday work.
And so it's we reemphasize it over the course of that incubator.
Darren Wurz (27:57.09)
How do you know in the interview process someone isn't going to embody one of these core values? In my experience, you know, interviews are largely useless to some degree because people, people can fake it, you know, people can say certain things, people can be great interviewers, they can have great resumes. But how do you know someone isn't is or is not going to embody one of these core values?
Jimmy Evans (28:24.696)
Well, it's you know, it's a gut call, number one. But number two, you I'm now committed to following that mission and hiring within that mission. I I think in the past I would admit that with when you're just hiring somebody just to have somebody to do the work, it's kind of a mishmash of what you're hiring because you're not really committed to it. I'm not, you know, I'm just trying to find somebody that has the experience and turnkey ready. And we haven't discussed this, but the shift primarily with me went from
And maybe I'm giving something away. I don't know. But the the the shift primarily went from looking for experienced family law attorneys or experienced family law paralegals, you know, like somebody who has five years in family law. I started looking for intangibles. I started looking for, I don't care if you're an attorney from an immigration firm, a personal injury firm, a civil firm. What I'm looking for is those intangibles that you and I are talking about.
work ethic, work drive. Can you be here early? Can you stay late if you need to? If you have to communicate with somebody sometimes after hours or on the weekends, will you do that? Because these are real people. I mean, can you connect with them and make sure they're okay? Like do you have that kind of drive and work ethic? Do you want to be a really good litigator? Like do you have those kinds of instincts? Because I can teach you family law. I mean I I'm a living proof now. I've I've got three attorneys that came over from the personal injury world.
They're now experts for sure in family law. You know, the other attorney came over from criminal prosecution, didn't know anything about family law. Michael's been with us now almost two years and is and is an expert in family law at this point. So we can teach you family law. So I had to shift that perspective to hire within the mission and emphasize and prioritize the intangibles. And then from there, I just committed that I can teach you the practice of family law.
Darren Wurz (30:20.886)
Yeah, yeah. 'Cause that's the stuff you can learn versus the stuff you can't learn. It's it's such a good lesson.
Jimmy Evans (30:27.618)
Dude, you cannot buy those intangibles.
Darren Wurz (30:29.822)
Yep. Yep. I'd rather have someone who I mean, I know you don't like younger people, but I'd rather have someone who's who is younger and hungry, you know, and and has a drive, may not know as much, but really really is is is is excited. That's something that I look for. Someone who's excited about the work that I have for them and excited about our business specifically.
Jimmy Evans (30:56.622)
Yeah, and and let me be clear, almost, you know, out of the team we have now, I think five or six of them are in that younger generation. Yeah. But they are the exception to the rule. Yeah. I I I mean, I I promise you, I talked to other business owners and other firm owners, and they have the same problem. I mean, you know, with that generation, I don't know what to call it, but I mean and but I those people that we've brought on that are in that younger generation, they have they are the exception. They work hard, they work quality.
They want to be good. They study. They're st they're studiers of the game, of the profession. You know, they there's all those intangibles, then that drive is there. And you know, so when you start to teach the actual practice, it all just comes with it. And it's made a huge difference. It's not that I won't hire younger people. I just want young people who meet the criteria.
Darren Wurz (31:51.382)
Yeah, definitely. Understand that. Thanks for that clarification. has anyone snuck by you? Like anyone you you thought this person has got the values, they're good, and then you got in, you're like, I don't think so.
Jimmy Evans (32:06.54)
Yeah, I would say if I was being truthful, we we've had one of those that just didn't work out. and ultimately, you know, I had to have that conversation, which is hard. you know, but I've remained very, very close with almost every person who's ever come through here. I try not to burn those bridges because they are real people too. but yes, we had one that s surprised me in the sense that I thought all the metrics were there, but it just wasn't working.
Darren Wurz (32:34.668)
Yep, I've had that experience.
Jimmy Evans (32:36.824)
But one out of, you know, all these r hires that we've done over the last two years I think is not not bad.
Darren Wurz (32:43.436)
Yeah. So yeah, I you know, on our team, I think I've gotten pretty lucky. We've gotten some really good folks. I I love all the people we've got. we we've had a few stumbles here and there, one that snuck by and thought they were gonna be great. And it was evident within the first few days that this was just not a good fit. Yeah. and you got a course correct and course correct fast. You know, that's where the the phrase hire, hire fast, fire faster, or something like that. Hire slow, fire fast.
Jimmy Evans (33:10.954)
I was about to say I had a a mentor of mine one time tell me that, you know, hire slow and fire fast. And and you know, and and and your owners, your business owners, especially your law firm owners, I mean I I I can I I would I I would really emphasize like what you just said is so true. If you start to see that you need correction, course correction, you just have to do it as quickly and upfront as possible.
'Cause you know, in the in the past, yeah, it does get easier. I mean, but in the past I would I'd kinda overlook it. I would slow walk it, you know, hey, I need this person, you know, they're working, they're producing. But you just realize over time that it it becomes like this slow toxin inside the firm and it really starts to create a push pull situation where you just can't align and everybody's not rowing in the same direction. And you learn what you just said, you know, to course correct as quickly as possible.
Darren Wurz (34:06.806)
Yeah, and you know, you get better at letting people go. it can be really scary to let somebody go. you know, but y you can frame it in a in a way that, you know, this is this isn't a punishment. This is me doing the best thing for both of us. Right. I I made a a a a judgment error in thinking you would be the right fit for this team, and I'm gonna free you up to
find an opportunity that really is a better fit for you. you know, and and some people get good at firing. I mean Barbara Corcoran, you know you know Barbara Corcoran is? She always said she loved to fire people on a Friday.
Jimmy Evans (34:45.247)
Sure, of course.
Jimmy Evans (34:49.561)
gosh.
Darren Wurz (34:51.022)
That was her thing. She you know, some people yeah, I'm not saying that needs to be everybody, but it's not doesn't have to be as scary as as as you make it out to be if the if you're scared of that.
Jimmy Evans (35:01.102)
Yeah, I I think it's just, you know, and and I don't like to even use the word firing people, but it it's just yeah, i as a business owner or as a law firm owner, the the main point is you just can't get held hostage by the fear of setting expectations and when people aren't meeting those expectations but producing, right? That's the thing. But producing, but they're not aligned with your core values, you've got to address that. Yeah.
Darren Wurz (35:27.266)
Yeah, critical. Well, Jimmy, it's been a great having you on the show. I've got two last questions for you real quickly. what is your AI tip of the day? Do you have one? Do have a new interesting way that you're utilizing AI in your firm or in in some of the work that you're doing?
Jimmy Evans (35:44.428)
Well, you know, AI is starting to the the the there's a problem with AI and that too many people are using it without verifying and you know, and it gives it's a smart tool in litigation, but it doesn't know how to read the judge. It doesn't know how to read the room. That's the difference with AI and litigation. At the end of the day, AI is not the judge. And so AI has become a very useful tool for the clients who are willing to let us do that.
We've gotten very smart about how to use certain platforms. and but we have to be very careful because of the confidentiality of it. But the you know, the ones that we do, the clients are willing to let us use it because it saves time and money. and in the hands of a litigator who knows how to use those tools, it's been a very, very useful tool. And we've started implementing that in the last, I mean, per fairly recently, really, in in just about the last eight months.
we've started use utilizing it to help us organize our timelines and primarily in as in the buildup of getting ready for larger trials. but what I've learned is that AI in the hands of an inexperienced attorney is not a very useful tool. AI in the hands of a pro se person who's representing themselves who doesn't know how to read the judge and understand those dynamics is just not a useful tool.
Sure. In the hands of an excellent litigator who knows how to do all those things, AI is a very powerful tool.
Darren Wurz (37:13.782)
Yeah, absolutely. And what is something that you're reading right now that you're finding very impactful?
Jimmy Evans (37:20.978)
you know, I'm a ho I I I'm not the right guy to ask because I'm a horrible reader. After I took the board certification exam and I used to be on the statewide commission to grade those exams, I made a commitment to my wife that I would never read for fun, like ever again. But I I constantly read C L E articles. I'm boring that way. I constantly read the professional materials. So I need to get better about read because you constantly are recommending reading and my business coach is constantly recommending books and
my wife reads them and gives me sometimes the summaries of them. Yeah. But I I'm not the right person to ask for that. I'm sorry. I'm co I'm a nerd. I'm a family law nerd. I'm constantly reading stuff about family law.
Darren Wurz (38:01.014)
Yeah, you know, I really don't enjoy reading so much myself. I've actually enjoy listening a lot better. And so I'll put a book on on audio and and listen to it while I do something else. That tends
Jimmy Evans (38:14.946)
Well, yeah, and I started listening to like your podcast. I I listen there's about four or five that I listen to pretty regularly, but it's it's usually a around my business or the the practice of family law just to stay on top of it.
Darren Wurz (38:28.91)
Great, great. Well, we're glad that you're a listener of the show and enjoying it. We appreciate that so much. And it's been great having you on, Jimmy. Thanks for joining us. Thanks. All right, and a huge thank you to Jimmy Evans, founder of Evans Family Law Group, for joining us today. Be sure to check the show notes for the links to connect with Jimmy and his team and for all the resources that we have for you.
Jimmy Evans (38:38.668)
Darren, appreciate it.
Darren Wurz (38:54.174)
I have, you know, made my own share of hiring successes and hiring mistakes. And so I've been there and I know just how critical it is to build a team that functions and functions well. In fact, it might be your number one responsibility as a law firm leader as your law firm grows is creating the right team with the right people in the right seats. And making the right decisions there has a huge impact on the profitability of your business.
That's exactly why our focus right now is profit together. And here at the Lawyer Millionaire, this is one of the things that we help law firm owners with all the time. And in fact, we surround you with an entire team of professionals to help you across all the areas that you need help with, from your business to your taxes and tax planning to your personal financial strategy and wealth building. We are on a mission to help law firm owners grow their businesses, minimize their taxes, and maximize.
Their personal wealth. If that's the team that you want to work with, go ahead and book an intro call with our team right now. You'll find the link down in the show notes. And if you want more conversations like this one delivered straight to your inbox and you want to get notifications about exciting events that we're putting on, join our email list. The link to join is in the show notes as well. Well, that's it for today, friend. And remember just one thing.
If your law firm isn't building you wealth, how in the hell is it going to build you freedom? Can I get an amen out there? All right. Now go make the cash flow and make the profits grow. And I'll see you next time.