Your First Hire Shouldn’t Be a Lawyer: The Delegation Move That Unlocks Growth (Ep. 143)

Written By Adedayo Adekunle

If you’re a law firm owner driven to grow your business and secure your financial future, you’re not alone. on this episode of The Lawyer Millionaire Podcast, host Darren Wurz sits down with law firm business consultant Ryan McKeen for a candid conversation on the key shifts that help attorneys build more scalable, reliable businesses and yes, step off the “hamster wheel” of doing everything yourself.

What’s keeping so many law firm owners from reaching the next level? Ryan Mckeen shares actionable advice for ambitious firm owners ready to make the leap.

The Biggest Mistake Law Firm Owners Make (and How to Fix It)

One of the most common missteps? When it’s time to grow, most law firm owners think the answer is hiring another lawyer. According to Ryan Mckeen, this approach often leaves owners stuck in a job rather than running a true business.

Why is this a problem? Attorneys are expensive hires and often require complex compensation, but they rarely take the administrative and repeatable tasks off your plate, the very activities that stop you from focusing on growth. Instead, Ryan Mckeen urges firm owners to hire strategically: start by delegating lower-value, repeatable work to staff who cost less per hour than you do. Administrative work, intake calls, and bookkeeping should be off your plate first.

From Job to Business: The Power of Systems and Delegation

Most law firms fall into the trap of being “just a job with help,” says Ryan Mckeen. Even as they grow, many owners are still stuck in every process, leaving no room for the strategic leadership and vision required for real business growth.

The solution? Build systems and processes that allow you to delegate roles and tasks—and stick to them. When you can step away and your business continues to run (and grow), you’ve built a true business, not just bought yourself a more demanding job.

Key steps to get there:

  • Clarify your destination: Identify where you want to go in the next five years. Make your goals tangible and specific, this clarity informs every hiring and system decision.

  • Break the “one-lawyer show” mindset: Delegate first to team members who free up your highest-value time. Use a deliberate system to map out all the work you do and decide what’s really worth your attention.

  • Embrace process, not just people: Invest in technology and workflow, so your team members can succeed and your results don’t rely solely on you.

Overcoming Mindset Barriers

Many law firm owners grew up with a scarcity mindset. Ryan Mckeen shared how his own middle-class upbringing and traditional legal training reinforced the idea that every dollar spent was a dollar lost. The reality? Hiring, marketing, and delegation are investments that, when made intentionally, can dramatically multiply your income and the value of your firm.

Don’t just look at the upfront expense rather look at the potential for growth and capacity that lets you scale.

Tried & True Strategies Outperform Trends

It’s easy to get distracted by today’s hottest legal tech, social media trends, or shiny new management fads. But Ryan Mckeen reminds us that no technology or trend replaces the basics: Provide excellent client service, build strong teams, and use proven business systems.

Business growth isn’t about being the flashiest—it’s about steady, reliable improvements in service, delegation, and operations. “Focusing on your clients and your people is never going to go out of style,” says Ryan Mckeen.

Quick Takeaways for Law Firm Owners

  1. Don’t hire another lawyer first. Delegate administrative tasks—downward delegation is the shortcut to freeing your time and maximizing profits.

  2. Create an operating system. Even solo practitioners need clear procedures to ensure work gets done consistently and efficiently.

  3. Prioritize your client experience. Your brand is your reputation—deliver on responsiveness, communication, and results.

  4. Embrace a business owner’s mindset. Investing in your business growth isn’t risky when done strategically—it’s essential for future scalability and eventual exit value.

  5. Start where you want to go. Define your 5-year plan, then reverse-engineer the roles, systems, and investment required.

Resources:

 

Connect with Darren Wurz:

 

Connect with Ryan McKeen:

 

About Ryan McKeen:

A client would be fortunate to have Ryan McKeen representing their case due to his deep understanding of personal injury law and commitment to fighting for justice. He has a proven track record of achieving high settlements and has been recognized by the Connecticut Personal Injury Hall of Fame for his work. As a trial lawyer, Ryan has worked to achieve a historic $100 million jury verdict in the courtroom.

Ryan is an adjunct professor at the University of Connecticut School of Law.

His successful cases and honors, such as being named a Super Lawyer and a New Leader in The Law, speak to his competence and dedication. Beyond his legal prowess, McKeen’s empathetic approach is noteworthy. He understands the plight of victims, having himself experienced the trials of a personal injury incident. Furthermore, his commitment to making law accessible, demonstrated through his blog and books, ensures that clients are well-informed and empowered throughout their legal journey. Coupled with his community service and dedication to ethical practice, McKeen offers not just legal representation, but also a partnership rooted in trust, transparency, and unwavering advocacy.

Ryan McKeen is a nationally recognized attorney based in Connecticut who has received numerous accolades for his work in personal injury law. He has been honored by the Connecticut Personal Injury Hall of Fame for securing one of the highest settlements in the state. The Connecticut Law Tribune named him to the Personal Injury Hall of Fame. Connecticut Trial Firm was a finalist in the Motorcyclist category, having achieved one of the highest settlements or verdicts in a wrongful death action in a motorcycle case.

In 2016, Ryan was included in the Hartford Business Journal’s “40 under 40” list, which recognizes promising young professionals in the Hartford area. He has been recognized by his peers as a Super Lawyer.

In addition to his legal work, McKeen contributes to the community. He has supported Achilles International, an organization that helps people with disabilities participate in mainstream running events, and his firm has sponsored local athletics events. He has also spoken nationally at various speaking engagements, sharing his expertise with audiences at law schools and conferences.

McKeen is not only a respected lawyer, but also an author. He has published multiple books, including “Tiger Tactics: Powerful Strategies for Winning Law Firms” and “Empower Yourself: A Practical Guide to Connecticut Personal Injury Law.” He has maintained the American Bar Association’s Top 100 blog, “A Connecticut Law Blog,” for over 13 years, writing over 1,000 posts and making legal knowledge more accessible.

Ryan is most proud of building a law firm that has been recognized for its charitable work and named the 3rd Best Place to Work in Connecticut by the Hartford Business Journal in 2023. He is committed to his clients, his team, and his community.

Education

Ryan received his Bachelor of Arts from Framingham State University and his Juris Doctor from Western New England University.

Transcript:

Darren Wurz [00:00:00]:

Most law firm owners think their next step is hiring another lawyer. Yet that single move is often the reason they stay trapped in a job. In Today's episode, Ryan McKean breaks down the exact delegation and operating system shifts that turn a small firm into a real business that can grow without you. All right, and we're here with Ryan McKean. Ryan, welcome to the show.

Ryan Mckeen [00:00:26]:

Hi, Darren. Thank you so much for having me on.

Darren Wurz [00:00:29]:

Yeah, I'm really excited that you're here. I've been following you on LinkedIn for some time, and it was really, really great to be able to connect with you recently. So we're excited that you're here. I want to kick it off with an interesting question. You now are working with law firms and helping them run better businesses. So you've seen it, and you ran your own law business for many, many years. So if you could wave a magic wand and change one about how lawyers run their businesses, what would it be?

Ryan Mckeen [00:01:01]:

Wow, that's. That's a great question. You know, I. I think what I would change is that they really, I would say, see their firms as businesses and approach their firms as businesses. Sort of like, what I mean by that is law firms, we've. I've worked with firms all over the world, all sorts of different practice areas, from firms that have, you know, a thousand plus lawyers to one lawyer. And, you know, sort of like the common issue is, like, if you went to many of these, if you. If you went to a local pizza restaurant, right, and you explained to the pizza shop owner how a law firm was run, they would look at you, like, what? Like, why in the world would you.

Ryan Mckeen [00:01:50]:

Why in the world would you do that? Like, how would you structure an organization like that? Like, this just doesn't make a ton of sense. And so on the smaller end of things, it could be owners doing everything. On the larger end of things, it could be how they serve, you know, how people serve their clients. Sort of like what the financial incentives are, what the product offerings are, how they think about what to invest in. For example, like, investing in things like client experience, investing in things like technology, investing in things like culture. So it would really be to change that mindset and sort of meld the business world with really, the practice of law.

Darren Wurz [00:02:35]:

Interesting. Do you see that most law firm owners still struggle with this and not seeing their business as a business?

Ryan Mckeen [00:02:46]:

Massively. There's much more acceptance than there was even five, 10 years ago about law firms being businesses. So that's. That's like a healthy first step. But What I see is owners don't really know what that means. Like, they basically, what they basically want is some better version of what they have. And a lot of times what they have is a job. And they sometimes have a job with some help.

Ryan Mckeen [00:03:15]:

They sometimes have a job with a lot of help, but what they have is a job. And so they know that there are businessy things out there. They know that there are things that they can be doing. And sometimes they want to know what those things are because they don't know. And other times the challenge for them is implementing, is letting go, is changing the current structures that they have. You know, I'm a big believer in, like, there are no sacred cows in life or business. And, you know, there are certain things that you have to let go of to move forward. And, And I think law firm owners sort of struggle with that, right? Like, they're like, hey, you know, our, you know, you know, I don't know.

Ryan Mckeen [00:04:00]:

Eggplant grinder has always been really successful, historically. It's grandma's recipe. We love the eggplant grinder, but, you know, you start looking at the numbers. Nobody's, you know, one person a week orders it. You've got to buy $50 worth of eggplant to serve it. And. And it no longer makes a ton of sense maybe to do that kind of graduate. So it's really not only the acknowledgement of it, but it's the acceptance, the willing to change things that are hard to change.

Ryan Mckeen [00:04:30]:

Frankly, it's very hard to change firm culture. It's very hard to change financial compensation. It's very hard to, I think, get people to adapt to the level of technological change that's going on right now. And so a lot of resistance occurs where it's just like, you know what? I'm going to put my head down. You know, things may not be perfect, but they're okay. And I'm not going to, I think, make. Make the changes that I need to be making.

Darren Wurz [00:05:02]:

Interesting. What are some of those key areas that, that, that make the difference when going from a job to a business? Is it data and actually measuring things? Is it that client experience? What's the thing?

Ryan Mckeen [00:05:19]:

Okay, so the thing like data and client experience, those to me are sort of spokes on a wheel, Darren. So the real thing to me is it is the ability to successfully delegate a whole bunch of things. So it is the systems, the technology, and the people required to level up your organization to do work that is not you. Like, that is when you really have a business, when you have a business. It's when you can step away. Money comes in, money goes out, things happen, the business grows. And you may not be involved in everything. You may be involved in one or two things, or you may be taking a step back entirely, but your business is still able to grow.

Ryan Mckeen [00:06:09]:

So it really goes from the individual, or maybe a small group of individuals to the proper processes, structures, technology, data, client experience that makes a business replicable that is separate from the people running it. Like, that's. That to me, is. Is the real distinction.

Darren Wurz [00:06:33]:

Yeah, the delegation, getting yourself out of it that I have found is one of the biggest struggle points for a lot of law firm owners and most business owners.

Ryan Mckeen [00:06:46]:

Right.

Darren Wurz [00:06:47]:

We've been doing everything for so long, it's hard to give things up. We think we're the best at it, and many times we're not. How do you help people go through that process and getting things off of their plate?

Ryan Mckeen [00:07:06]:

The very first thing is to start where you want to go. We have a book the way. Anybody listening? If you want to send me an email, I'll mail you a copy for free. We created it because we were working with firms, and it was going to be an internal manual based upon our own experiences and based upon the work we were doing with firms at the firm. We were big believers in eos that is relatively complicated, hard to adopt, and a struggle, especially for law firms that are under $10 million a year in revenue. And so we said, like, let's simplify this. And then once we had the process down, we're like, let's make it into a book so people can have it. So really and truly, you know, being able to shift that mindset and understand where it is that you want to go, otherwise you just start doing either random acts of improvement or random acts of business, and you don't get the result that you want.

Ryan Mckeen [00:08:04]:

So, you know, a lot of it starts with me asking, you know, the firm leadership or the firm owner, you know, what do you want your life to be in five years? What do you want your business to look like? You know, what are some examples of this in the market that you see? Who do you respect? What sounds good to you? Both personally? Personally. So when you can start getting clarity on that, then you can start really working backwards in terms of where you want to go and then how to get there, and then who's going to get you there? And, you know, a real common sort of struggle is that law firm owners, or maybe lawyers, business owners in general, you know, they can only see Cost. So if they say, okay, I'm making $300,000 a year and I bring this person on at 50,000, then there's going to be 250,000. And it's like, well, no, if you bring that person on at 50,000, if you're doing it any sort of right, that should add 150,000 in income to your business. So you're at 3 and you should go to 450. So they do the very simple subtraction, but they never do the, the also simple but maybe harder to accept sort of leap of faith addition to what a proper hire can do for a team and for a business. It's, it's largely my belief that, you know, businesses, the size of a business, the revenue of a business are a choice. Okay.

Ryan Mckeen [00:09:45]:

And if you really want to get a bigger business and you want to get a higher gross number, you have to hire more people. Like, there's just, there's just no, there's no way around that. Yeah. And you have to do more marketing. You have to, you know, but, but there, those are really the only two investments that you can make. And both of those things require a leap of faith because you don't know what's going to happen when you hire somebody. You don't know what's going to happen when you undertake a new marketing venture. You know, you can make some guesses, you can do your work, but ultimately to me, the ones who really want to grow and succeed are the ones who are constantly taking action on those fronts.

Darren Wurz [00:10:32]:

Yeah, you've got to be forward looking. It's very easy to be backward looking and think, well, I don't have the money yet and it's easy to do. I did this in my own business when I first started out. I just, you know, projected linearly into the future how, you know, revenue and everything was going to go. But what I didn't factor in is time and the fact that I only have so much time. So at a certain point you reach your capacity. And this is a great topic because we just, in our Masterclass series last quarter, we read Buy Back youk Time by Dan Martel and the buyback ladder and the whole concept of getting more of your time back as the leader so that you can elevate and move to the next level in your business.

Ryan Mckeen [00:11:27]:

You know, and a lot of this, Darren, comes from two things that I find one of which is it comes from, you know, a lot of people having a middle class background, growing up middle class. And I certainly can relate, you know, My mom was a stay at home mom. My dad worked, did it for a retail company in town. I mean, we had a good upbringing, but by no means rich. And a dollar spent was a dollar less that you had. And that's just the, the money lessons that I grew up with and like internalized, and they're the money lessons that a lot of lawyers internalize. And it makes sense. Right.

Ryan Mckeen [00:12:13]:

And the other thing is law school. Law school really teaches scarcity mindset and it really creates risk aversion. So really and truly, it's like, you know, oh, it is the same thing, which is like, if you hire an employee that's less money for you is essentially the, the internalization of the message. And really what you have to do is you have to break through those things, understand why you think those things, identify the very legitimate risks and business concerns, and identify the things that you can do to avoid those things. So, you know, those sorts of mindset issues. I'm not a psychiatrist, I'm not a psychologist, but I, when I do consulting, I will often tell somebody, like, you may want to get a therapist and just talk about your feelings about money.

Darren Wurz [00:13:08]:

Yeah, I think you hit the nail on the head there. There really is something there where there is an under. A misunderstanding about investing and how you can create more revenue by investing in your business. It's not about like, just, I'm going out, I'm making money. I think, you know, maybe there is. Maybe a lot of this comes from just the way law firms have been run for a long, long, long time. You know, I never really understood, you know, the business of like a big law firm. It's, you know, traditionally it's a collection of lawyers.

Darren Wurz [00:13:53]:

You have a whole bunch of lawyers and they do the legal work. There's no hierarchical structure other than, you know, some people are partners and some people are associates. Nothing like a normal business where you have a CEO, you have a board, you have a coo, you have kind of these leadership positions. It's just you have a collection of lawyers and they do everything and they get together and they make the decisions. So do you think maybe that kind of plays into it and how people kind of approach starting a law firm?

Ryan Mckeen [00:14:25]:

No. Zero question. There's zero question in my mind. And this gets back to sort of like if you told your local pizza shop guy, you know, how or woman, how you run your firm, they're gonna go. So basically, like, every server is like its own business and like, you're kind of competing with each other and wait a Minute, like the servers and the cooks run the whole restaurant, and nobody's really in charge. But you're right. Most of some. A lot of law firms are collections of lawyers held together by commercial leases.

Ryan Mckeen [00:15:04]:

Like that's what it is. And that is not the most profitable, efficient, or effective way to run a business. A business should be focused, should have processes and systems in place to serve that focus or that mission, should have people in place and should have decision making. That is not decision making by committee. You know, you know, I'm a big, big sports fan, and, you know, you have to have hierarchical decision making. You know, the offensive coordinator has to be the one on the football field who calls the offensive plays. Otherwise you don't need one. You don't get all the players on the sideline going.

Ryan Mckeen [00:15:48]:

You know what I think we should do? I think we should do a draw here. No, no, no. We should do a play action pass. Like, you can't do that. You can't move effectively and efficiently. Ultimately, you need people knowing their roles, in their roles, able to succeed, making decisions on behalf of the team and communicating those decisions to the people who are. Whose job it is to execute them.

Darren Wurz [00:16:13]:

Yeah, I love that. I love that analogy, too, of the sports team and everyone having their role. I. What I have seen is one of the biggest mistakes in hiring for, like, solo practices is the first person they want to go out and hire is another attorney.

Ryan Mckeen [00:16:32]:

Yes.

Darren Wurz [00:16:33]:

Tell us why that's a mistake.

Ryan Mckeen [00:16:36]:

On every level. On every level. That. That is. That is a mistake. Okay, first of all, attorneys are the most expensive hires most law firms will make. So that. That is.

Ryan Mckeen [00:16:47]:

That is thing number one. You know, Dan Martell's book on Buy Back youk Time is a very good book that makes this point, which is, like, if you want to make money, you need to downwardly delegate tasks to people who make less than you. And this is so intuitive, you know, where, you know, look, a lot of lawyers in my area, you know, they'll bill five, $600 an hour. They'll. And yet they'll take their time, you know, answering phones, which is a task that you could get done for maybe $25 an hour or doing books, you know, similar thing. Or, you know, like, they get caught up in those smaller tasks. I'm like, you understand that that hour you spent doing books cost you $475. Would you pay $475 for that? You know, look, when you're first starting out, it's okay, because maybe you have more time than money, okay? But quickly, you need to downwardly delegate and shift those things.

Ryan Mckeen [00:17:52]:

So your first hires should be people who are making less than you. Lawyers are difficult to compensate, want high compensation models. And also, you know, they're not generally going to take a ton off your, off your plate because you may be busy and they may have their own work. Again, that can help alleviate some costs, maybe in terms of a rental income. But, you know, to me, you know, your, your, your first hires really should be in any practice area. You know, an assistant, a paralegal, a receptionist, somebody in the office who can scan the mail, answer the phones, you know, do some light bookkeeping, administrative tasks, call some clients. You know, that's going to get you a lot further than hiring a lawyer. And that's, that's true in really, you know, almost any practice area.

Ryan Mckeen [00:18:49]:

I could imagine the exception being that you have a criminal defense firm which has high volume, that requires a lot of court appearances. Well, then, okay, maybe that's, maybe you do need another lawyer for that if you've got the call volume and you've got the court dates. But in general, most of the time, that is a giant, giant mistake.

Darren Wurz [00:19:13]:

Absolutely. I love all of that. And thank you for telling us about that, Ryan. It's so critical for law firms to understand. Let's dig a little bit deeper into the specifics. You mentioned your book, the way and that you have made some tweaks to the EOS process to make it a little bit more friendly, perhaps for, you know, solo and small firm attorneys. Without giving too much away. Can you tell us what are some of those adaptations? How do you make it easier?

Ryan Mckeen [00:19:42]:

I'll give everything away. I mean, I give the book away. So the. Okay, so, I mean, part of what EOS does and it's, it's such a smart book. One of my favorite books, Traction is one of my favorite books. Read it. You know, where it really establishes the idea that businesses need operating systems, which, you know, our phones need operating systems, our computers need operating systems. You know, courts need operating systems, procedures in place as to how the thing functions in general, how the organization functions.

Ryan Mckeen [00:20:14]:

Right. And you know, Traction really spends a lot of time talking about visionary and integrator relationship. And look, I had that at the firm. I mean, we, we grew to about 40 people. I had a professional COO, you know, with an MBA and 25 years experience and, and a host of things. Right. And that, that was awesome. But our revenues were close to eight figures by the time I was doing that, you know, so.

Ryan Mckeen [00:20:44]:

But that's Very unattainable for many, many firms that are out there. So they either don't have the person or they stick the wrong person in the role. And really what traction also envisions are, you know, in key terms a 10 year vision. And it also envisions really director level people. And it is so hard if you are under $5 million in revenue to have legit director level people in non production capacity. So director of marketing, director of, you know, operations, director of finance. Those kinds of positions that are very valuable. So what we saw is teams really had and I, we say it's really good for firms that are under 10 million in revenue, gross revenue.

Ryan Mckeen [00:21:39]:

Because what we talk about is it's not a ten year vision, it's a five year destination. Really. Vision becomes a squishy word for lawyers. Like they just don't do well lawyers. We're language people. And it's like vision that just. Yeah, I, I don't, I don't know what that, I don't know what that is. But if I say, look like you have to think about your firm like you're planning a vacation.

Ryan Mckeen [00:22:02]:

Oh, okay. So I use an example like hey, you're gonna go to Iceland. You may go to Iceland or you may go to Costa Rica. They're both fabulous places for your listeners. I love both of those countries. Go to them. They are very different places. You need to pack differently, you need to expect different things.

Ryan Mckeen [00:22:21]:

There is different language there, you know, just a host of different things that need that, that you're going to need to plan for. So we do a five year destination. We don't talk about directors, but we really talk about, you know, who are your rider guys on your organization, who are the critical people. Because you know, when you're super small, it may be your paralegal that is sort of your leadership team for your firm.

Darren Wurz [00:22:51]:

Right.

Ryan Mckeen [00:22:52]:

And then we really, you know, they talk about 90 minute weekly meetings. We shorten them to 30 minutes. You know, it's just, it's smaller tweaks like that to make it easier and make it something that firms can self implement on them on their own, which, which they do. And you know, that's, that's how we run our consulting company. And it, the firms that do this see great growth. So it's sort of like, you know, an EOS light where you know, there are some important tweaks. I'd say a lot of the fundamental principles are the same. Some of it is a little bit tailored to law firms in terms of KPIs but you know, that's, it's really important that you, whether it's our book or EOS or you know, scaling up or, you know, some of these other ideas are out there.

Ryan Mckeen [00:23:52]:

Putting an operating system in place, even if you're a solo, I think is really, really important.

Darren Wurz [00:23:59]:

Yeah, yeah. Oh, that's really cool. I love that because, you know, you're right. EOS is a lot, it can be a lot to implement. You don't, you may not need, if you're a three person team, might not need a 90 minute weekly meeting. No. Way too much.

Ryan Mckeen [00:24:12]:

Way too much.

Darren Wurz [00:24:13]:

Yeah. And five years, that's great because you know, when you're small and you're just starting out 10 years, you can't even envision 10 years, but five years makes it a lot more tangible. So that's really cool. I love that. And we will link that in the show notes for anybody who's interested and want to check out Ryan's book. We'll put that in the show notes for you. Ryan, you gave us a little bit of a sneak peek of your history. Tell us a little bit more about how you came into the business that you're in now.

Darren Wurz [00:24:43]:

How did you get there?

Ryan Mckeen [00:24:45]:

Yeah, so few things. I like to think of my career sort of in terms of 10 year blocks and so really the first 10 years I spent enormous amount of time trying to figure out how to be a lawyer and really invested a lot of energy into trying to just become the best lawyer that I could. And but I, I, I, I grew, I hit the ceiling with that in terms of what I could do, what I could earn, the kind of life I wanted to have just in terms of being able to create things. And I'd say the second 10 years I really focused on business and developing myself in terms of how do I run a good business, how do I grow a business, how do I do these kinds of things. And I mean, look, I still, I had hundreds of cases when I was at Connecticut trial firm. I, I was a trial counsel and counsel for five years on a case that got a hundred million dollar jury verdict, the highest in the Connecticut history. So like, it wasn't like I was, I was divorced from that process. I was involved in it heavily.

Ryan Mckeen [00:25:57]:

But you know, I, I was, I was getting more into the business side of the thing as the firm grew. And ultimately, you know, I ended up, still am in a significant dispute with my former business partner, which, you know, I was just like, I, I, you know, this is not working for me ultimately and Decided to get bought out of the firm and ended up, you know, starting a. A consulting company because it was like I had a, a chance in my life to say, you know, what is it that I want to do? And it was like, I really am excited by teaching. I was doing work for a lawyerist as a coach. I love speaking. I was just, just engaged in more of this activity and I really, really liked it. I also love the practice of law. So I have a.

Ryan Mckeen [00:26:51]:

I have a small law firm as well where I take cases, I work them, I work closely with my clients, and I love helping out my clients in that way. You know, that's sort of the long and short of how I ended up where I am. So I took five people from my firm and with me and we. From having no. No clients, nothing. Started a best era, a consulting company for law firms.

Darren Wurz [00:27:21]:

That's so cool. Yeah, kind of the, the opposite of my journey. I started out as a teacher teaching 8th and 9th grade science and then became a financial advisor and, and then my journey continued from there. But I always love teaching and maybe one day I'll. I'll return to it in some form.

Ryan Mckeen [00:27:40]:

You know, Darren, it's interesting. I went to college to be a teacher, and in fact I went to Framingham State University, which is the first teachers College in the U.S. first Normal School in the U.S. founded by Horace Mann for all you education fans out there. And I decided when I was there, I'm like, I just don't think I'm going to be satisfied teaching like I need. Like the classroom felt too small for what I wanted to do. And so I decided to go into law school and help people using my law degree and to sort of come full circle. Now I'm an adjunct professor at University of Connecticut School of Law, teaching legal entrepreneurship.

Ryan Mckeen [00:28:23]:

So I took a very circ. Like a very long winding road to end up teaching. So I teach in the falls at UConn Law.

Darren Wurz [00:28:36]:

Very cool. Very cool. Well, I want to ask you a few more questions. I know you probably read a lot of books. We talked about your book. We have a masterclass here at the Lawyer Millionaire, where we read one book a quarter. We mentioned Buy Back youk Time was the last one. Right now we're reading A Random Walk Down Wall street, which is just a really fascinating book.

Darren Wurz [00:28:59]:

It's a timeless classic, but it was actually recently updated. So it talks about some of the most recent things that have happened in the markets, like the meme stocks and things like that. And one of the things that I have taken away from the beginning of the book. They take you through a history of markets and the biggest bubbles that have happened all the way back to the tulip craze in the 1600s. And what you realize is that human psychology really stays the same. And while history may not repeat itself, it certainly does rhyme.

Ryan Mckeen [00:29:32]:

Yes, it does.

Darren Wurz [00:29:34]:

A lot of the same things tend to happen over and over again. A lot of the same mistakes, which is really quite interesting. Now, I was trying to think how we can apply this to law firms and business. One of the things I was thinking is it's easy to kind of get swept up into trends and things that everyone else is doing. Everyone else is doing this. I think I need to do that too, instead of really relying on the tried and true. There's some tried and true things that work really, really well in business. What are some of those from your perspective? Are there any trends right now that people are just getting caught up in too much, that maybe people need to return to basics?

Ryan Mckeen [00:30:19]:

Yep. Yes and yes. So, you know, look, our company named Best Era is a riff on Taylor Swift. You know, there are some things that never go out of style. And to me, that is client service. That is, it's client service. And you know, you talk about books. One of my favorite books is Unreasonable Hospitality by Will Gordera.

Ryan Mckeen [00:30:46]:

Will is actually going to be speaking online to my law school. I, I reached out to him and I assigned this book to my class and, and he's going to be talking to them. But I think, I think, you know, two things. One of which is if you can really, you know, people talk about brand and they, they think it's a logo or they think it's colors or they think it's some oops. I don't know if I can swear on your podcast they think it's something. So they, they think it's, they think it's something. But really your brand is your reputation back to being sort of a restaurant. Same thing applies to law One, you should have a good product.

Ryan Mckeen [00:31:28]:

Like if your pizza is really good, you got something, you've got half of what you need. The second thing is the experience. You know, service is what you do. And hospitality, which good era makes the point is how you make people feel. So if you are good at what you do and you treat people really well, like if you're in a service based business, which all lawyers are, you're going to do very well for yourself regardless of, you know, whether you, whether or not you go to a seminar and somebody's like you should be doing TikTok videos or you know, oh, you should really be on Sora or like that, that. Fine, that's, that's okay, you can be there. But really and truly, back to Taylor, it is the excellence in service and the excellence in hospitality that is going to sustain, grow your business in ways that I think are sustainable. And you know, that's never going to go out of style.

Ryan Mckeen [00:32:37]:

And, and also boring stuff is not going to go out of style. And what I mean by that is like, AI is very exciting and I love AI and I write about AI and I teach about AI. Very, very exciting. Kind of boring is something like EOS meetings and goals and writing things down. But those sort of boring fundamentals, what I call the blocking and tackling of business, focusing on those things is very, very important. And also focusing on your people because if you focus on your clients and you focus on your team like you're, you're gonna do, you're gonna do really, really, really well almost regardless of what else is going on in the world. So treating your people well, making sure they have the training that they need to do their jobs, making sure that they know what's expected of them, making sure that they share your vision and your values, those things are very, very, very, very important. And also too, like when you see trends and this and that, you know, the data also just does not lie.

Ryan Mckeen [00:33:55]:

And everything that you talked about is irrational exuberance of essentially people get all in on a meme coin and they, or they get all in on, you know, baseball cards or like it's, it's a mania. Is, is, is, is really what it is. But you know, if you're smart and you take a step back and you're like, this doesn't make sense. And if you read a book like, you know, the Big Short or something, like there are people who look at things like rationally, like, hey, I know everybody's putting their money in this stuff, but my God, what are they doing? You know, and sort of taking, having the confidence to take a counter approach.

Darren Wurz [00:34:33]:

Yeah, those are great lessons. You know, there was. One of the things I've noticed is that most of these bubbles happen around some kind of new technology or new opportunity that exists. In the 60s it was the electronics boom. It was the space age. Anything Tronics, Anything Tronics was the thing. In the 90s it was the dot com bubble. Anything.com was the next big thing.

Darren Wurz [00:35:03]:

In fact, in the 80s, there was a bubble in the 80s and the roaring 80s, there was a company called Androbots and this was a sign of the times. They had no profit, they had no revenue, they had no dividends to return to shareholders, but they had the promise that they were going to put a robot, personal robot in everybody's home. This was back in the 80s.

Ryan Mckeen [00:35:28]:

And.

Darren Wurz [00:35:28]:

People bought it up and they loved it, right? And of course it was full of hot air, you know, so that kind of stuff is just fun. But it goes to your point, right, where the hot, flashy stuff is cool and maybe it's helpful and there's tools out there that can help you, but really executing on the basics is the recipe for long term success. And a business that's going to sustain, right? Not a business is going to be bright and flashy and then burn out, but a business that's going to be around a long time from now, right?

Ryan Mckeen [00:35:58]:

I mean, I, I'm a, I'm a big football fan and I sometimes don't speak in sports analogies because I know not everybody is. But in, you know, in, in football, you know, you've got different players. Your wide receivers catch the ball, your quarterbacks throw the ball. Your, your running backs are the ones who, you know, get handed the ball, you know, and so the least sort of sexy positions on the field are your linemen, your offensive and defensive lineman. But if you talk to any football coach, they. If I said to you, if you can win the battle at the line of scrimmage every single game, forget who the wide receiver is, forget who the quarterback is, you're going to have a real good chance to win that game and to be a very good team, you know, unless you're, you know, you know, but you, you know, and I feel like with law firms, like, okay, I know you want the flashy wide receiver. Let's focus on getting that line of scrimmage. We're going to get, you know, the big nasty guys on both sides of that ball who are going to push the other side backwards, create opportunity, and you're going to do, you're going to do a lot better.

Ryan Mckeen [00:37:11]:

And I think, you know, firms sometimes draft like poor sports teams where it's like, hey, go get the fast wide receiver. But it's like you're getting pushed around the line of scrimmage. Your quarterback can't get the ball out.

Darren Wurz [00:37:24]:

You know, what do they say offense is it? Offense wins games, defense wins championships or something like that.

Ryan Mckeen [00:37:31]:

Yep.

Darren Wurz [00:37:32]:

Right. Yeah.

Ryan Mckeen [00:37:34]:

Yeah.

Darren Wurz [00:37:34]:

Great advice. Great, great advice. Well, Ryan, it's been fabulous having you on the show. Is there anything else you want to share with our audience and can you tell our audience where they can go to learn more about you?

Ryan Mckeen [00:37:47]:

The best place to learn anything more about me is LinkedIn. You can find me, friend me, send me a DM on LinkedIn. That's a great way to get in touch with me. I usually try to write something about the business of law or the practice of law every single day. I do respond to my DMs. If you try to spam me, I will respond saying that I already have a girlfriend as my, as my generic response for LinkedIn spam. But if you're generally reaching out, I will, I will, I will respond to you almost certainly. That's a great place to find me.

Ryan Mckeen [00:38:22]:

Or bestera.com as well. Check out what we're doing, events, offerings, things like that. Yeah, very cool.

Darren Wurz [00:38:32]:

Well, Ryan, it's been a pleasure talking with you. Thank you so much for being on the show.

Ryan Mckeen [00:38:36]:

Thank you so much, Darren.

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