600 Leads, 3 Clients Why Your Marketing Isn't Working and What To Do Instead (Ep. 123)

Written By Adedayo Adekunle

If you’re a law firm owner frustrated by unimpressive results from online marketing campaigns, you’re not alone. Many attorneys sink thousands into flashy digital ads, only to be overwhelmed by low-quality leads and minimal return. But as Ben Glass, founder of Ben Glass Law and Great Legal Marketing, shared on The Lawyer Millionaire Podcast, there’s a smarter way to build a profitable law firm and it starts with going back to basics.

The Biggest Law Firm Marketing Myth

It’s time to let go of the “if you do good work, clients will come” mindset. While professionalism is crucial, Ben Glass explained that hope is not a marketing strategy—especially in today’s competitive environment. Relying solely on digital advertising or SEO means competing with firms willing to outspend you at every turn, all while you’re left sifting through unqualified leads.

Build Your Law Firm Through Relationships, Not Just Random Leads

Referral marketing is your secret weapon. Ben stresses that the highest value cases nearly always come from personal referrals—not cold internet leads. Focusing on authentic relationships in your community and legal network positions you as the trusted go-to attorney, not just another name on a search result.

Actionable Tips:

  • Create Your “Dream 100” List: Make a list of key referral sources—lawyers, professionals, and satisfied past clients—who already know, like, and trust you.

  • Monthly Touchpoints: Reach out personally each month, whether with a hand-written note, a mailed firm newsletter, or a thoughtful book.

  • Stay Top of Mind: Regular, genuine contact stands out far more than yet another impersonal online ad.

Storytelling Sets You Apart

Many attorneys publish their biggest verdicts on their websites, assuming numbers convince potential clients. Ben Glass recommends something different—tell your story. Let your network understand who you are: not just as a lawyer, but as a person. Are you a parent, an athlete, a community volunteer? Share these details in your marketing, newsletters, and interactions.

Why does this matter? Because people refer people they remember and trust. When prospective clients and referral partners recall your story, not just your practice area, they’re much more likely to recommend you when the need arises.

Stand Out by Adding Real Value

Being generous with your time, knowledge, and connections—not just expecting something in return—grows your referral network and builds trust. Host community workshops, support local initiatives, or offer complimentary strategy sessions. Ben’s “Lunch With Ben” program invites lawyers to connect over a simple virtual lunch, providing immense value and building memorable relationships.

The Right Metrics Matter

Don’t get lost chasing hundreds of weak digital leads that waste your team’s time. Instead, measure the true cost and outcome of each marketing strategy, including time spent on intake and conversions. Remember: One solid referral can be worth more than 100 random website leads.

Key Takeaways for Ambitious Law Firm Owners

  • Prioritize Relationships Over Ads: Build a referral-rich practice through meaningful, consistent outreach.

  • Tell Your Story: Humanize your brand and make your firm memorable.

  • Invest in Client Experience: Delight every client—happy clients become your best referral sources.

  • Give First, Without Expectation: Generosity creates goodwill and fosters trust within your network.

  • Track What Matters: Focus on the quality, not just quantity, of leads and new cases.

Resources:

 

Connect with Darren Wurz:

 

Connect with Ben Glass:

 

About Ben Glass:

Ben Glass is a prominent long-term disability attorney, business leader, and legal marketing expert with over 40 years of experience in representing disabled and injured clients against insurance companies. He is widely recognized for his innovative approach to law and business, making significant contributions to both fields.

Early Life and Education

Ben Glass was born and raised in Northern Virginia, attending Thomas Jefferson High School where he captained his high school soccer team for three years, won a regional championship his senior year and went on to play soccer at William & Mary on scholarship.

Ben played for the Annandale Cavaliers, who won a national youth soccer championship in 1976 at the U-19 division. He started his soccer referee career at age 16 and continues to referee at the youth and high school level today.

Ben graduated from George Mason University Law School, (now The Antonin Scalia School of Law) and began the private practice of law in 1983. He started BenGlassLaw in 1995.

Legal Career

Based in Fairfax, Virginia, Ben Glass has built a distinguished career as a personal injury and disability lawyer. He is the founder of BenGlassLaw, a law firm renowned for its dedication to client advocacy and exceptional legal representation. One notable highlight of his career was recovering $6 million for the family of an elementary school child who was tragically killed by a mechanical wall in the school’s gym. The firm has over $33 million of future disability benefits under management for his clients.

Thought Leadership in the Legal Profession

Ben is a nationally recognized and sought after speaker in the legal industry and has taught and lectured on a variety of legal subjects including direct and cross examination, the use of expert witnesses, conducing effective voir dire and jury selection, maximizing recovery in personal injury cases and effective representation of disabled workers in ERISA long-term disability cases. Ben has been featured prominently in numerous publications and media outlets such as Lawyers Weekly Virginia, The Washington Post, Newsweek, USA Today, and The Wall Street Journal. Ben has argued significant and interesting long-term disability and life insurance claims in courts around the country.

Ben Glass is not only a successful attorney but also a leading figure in legal marketing. He founded Great Legal Marketing (GLM), an organization aimed at helping solo and small firm lawyers enhance their marketing strategies and business practices. His expertise has been sought after nationwide, and he is a frequent speaker and author on legal marketing, speaking at in-person and virtual conferences to entrepreneurs around the world.

Ben Glass is a critic of the legal profession’s approach to “lawyer wellness” and frequently posts videos that upset the establishment.

Podcasts and Media Presence

Ben Glass hosts the Renegade Lawyer Podcast and the ERISA Disability and Life Insurance Litigation Podcast, platforms through which he shares education and his unconventional yet highly effective approaches to law and business. His ‘renegade’ brand of lawyering has earned him a spot as a guest on over 100 podcasts, solidifying his status as a thought leader in the legal community.

Publications

Ben Glass is the visionary author behind a series of groundbreaking books that have transformed the legal and entrepreneurial landscapes, while also shaping the future of youth sports.

Ben Glass Center for Growth and Innovation

Through the Ben Glass Center for Growth and Innovation, Glass provides coaching and training to lawyers from the United States and Canada. These quarterly meetings attract legal professionals eager to learn from Ben and his team on how to become better lawyers, and build thriving businesses that serve their communities.

Charity and Community Involvement

Ben Glass has a long-standing commitment to philanthropy. He served on the Board of Directors for Love Without Boundaries, an international charity focused on providing hope and healing to orphaned and vulnerable children. Glass’s contributions extend beyond legal work as he also mentors the charity’s leadership team.

In the local community, Glass is an advocate for positive behavior in youth soccer, emphasizing sportsmanship and the rewarding nature of refereeing. His work with the Commonwealth Soccer Officials Association and his mentorship of young referees have fostered a healthier environment for youth soccer in the United States.

Personal Life

Ben Glass is married to Sandi Glass and they have nine children, four of whom were adopted from China. Ben and Sandi have seven grandchildren.

Ben Glass is known for his dedication to his clients and his team. He values the culture and the collaborative environment at BenGlassLaw, which he considers instrumental in achieving successful outcomes for their clients.

Legacy

Ben Glass’s legacy in the legal and business worlds is marked by his commitment to excellence, innovative thinking, and community involvement. His influence extends beyond his immediate professional circle, impacting the broader legal community through his teachings, publications, and personal mentorship.

Notable Quotes

  • “Every case win is a highlight because we are changing lives.”

  • “Helping our clients and growing and mentoring a great team is the most rewarding part of my role.”

  • “America is the land of endless opportunity, there is no reason why anyone cannot be successful in the United States.”

Ben Glass continues to inspire and lead, proving that a successful legal career can go hand-in-hand with meaningful contributions to society and the betterment of professional practices in law.

You can listen to Ben at work in court here.

Follow Ben

You can follow Ben on Social Media, where he talks about life, law, building great companies and his recovery from triple bypass surgery in March 2024:

LinkedIn
Facebook (Personal)
Facebook (BenGlassLaw)
Facebook (Great Legal Marketing)
TikTok (Renegade Lawyer)

Transcript:

Darren Wurz [00:00:00]:

The best cases and clients come from referrals. Welcome to the Lawyer Millionaire, helping law firm owners grow their businesses and their wealth. I'm your host, Darren Wurz. In today's marketing environment, it's easy to get caught up in flashy digital tactics and massive ad spends. But what if the secret to growth lies in old school? If you're tired of chasing leads and are ready to build a referral rich values driven practice. This episode is for you. Ben Glass is the founder of Ben Glass Law and Great Legal Marketing. With over four decades in practice, Ben is nationally recognized for building a law firm using personal relationships, storytelling and abundance driven strategies.

Darren Wurz [00:00:47]:

All right, Ben, thanks for joining us today. We're glad to have you here.

Ben Glass [00:00:53]:

It's going to be fun, Darren, as it always is when I get a chance to talk to you.

Darren Wurz [00:01:00]:

Absolutely. So let's kick it off with a big question. You know, there's a lot of myths going around about marketing. There's a lot of, lot of different things people believe. Tell me from your perspective, what's the biggest marketing myth that law firm owners need to ditch to stay competitive in today's world?

Ben Glass [00:01:23]:

You know, it's the old bromide, like do good work and they will come. Like we've heard that forever. So it doesn't matter what the media is or how much money is being spent. That's what young lawyers are taught and the profession teaches. So that's number one. Number two is, and it's a fight I have in my own firm, you know, with, with respect to my youngins who helped me with my marketing is like this whole move to everything is digital. It's so easy. Like we could do, we're going to do social media, we're going to do email newsletters.

Ben Glass [00:01:49]:

And I'm old school. I'm like personal relationships, boxes that get sent, things like that. So, you know, for, for, for most lawyers in America, relationships matter deeply and the more authentic you can make a relationship. And by that I mean. Darren, what can I do for you first? Like, how can I help you? Just beats this digital stuff. I get it. It looks easy. That's what everyone is selling.

Ben Glass [00:02:18]:

It's very hard to compete because there's guys and gals who could spend a ton more money than I can on digital marketing.

Darren Wurz [00:02:25]:

Right. I love that. Yeah. We can't forget about that personal connection and we're going to talk a lot more about that before we dive any further. Ben, give us the quick story of how you got started in law and where you are today with Your practice, and I emphasize quick because I know we could probably stay there all day.

Ben Glass [00:02:45]:

You know, I was. I was a lucky one. At 16, I thought I knew that I wanted to become a lawyer. I was. I went to college to play soccer. That was my first love. And played soccer at William Mary and then went to law school at George Mason when it literally. Darren, it literally got its full ABA accreditation like two months before I walked into it in 19, in the fall of 1980.

Ben Glass [00:03:06]:

So did three years there, got a job locally, good firm, trial lawyer, firm. Was able to be involved. The blessing was I was able to be involved in a lot of cases and to work with a lot of experienced lawyers because we were doing a lot of insurance defense work. So I got to see and do a lot of stuff. 12 years. How hard could this be? Let's go start my own law firm. I had good cases, good results. I did that.

Ben Glass [00:03:30]:

I took my cases and left and did well until those cases ran out. And then I ran into the biggest problem, which is I didn't really know anything about business and I didn't really know anything about how to get cases. And so that's really the start of the journey and finding, figuring out in the. Back in the day marketing and advertising, which was yellow pages, basically. Yeah, I am. There's yellow pages, Darren. Kind of the dawn of the Internet, the dawn of the use of the Internet for lawyers. And went out and learned and improved the practice.

Ben Glass [00:04:05]:

The practice is now. I mean, I'm 42 years into the profession, 30 years into running Ben Glass Law. Got about 20 under roof, five or six in the Philippines. We've got a great reputation and a regional brand that's very strong. And boom, we learn stuff every single day, Darren. That's the thing. It's still very interesting work and very interesting journey.

Darren Wurz [00:04:29]:

Yeah, absolutely. For sure. The world is constantly changing. What a great story. You know, so many of us, I feel like my journey mirrors that somewhat, you know, you know, jumping into starting a business and then realizing what all that's involved. Right. So let's talk about marketing. Right.

Darren Wurz [00:04:54]:

In today's world, you have kind of a different perspective on marketing and what can be effective. So, you know, a lot of small firms, they don't have that big budget. What should they really look toward first? You know, let's say they don't have that. That massive budget. What are the key things they should prioritize?

Ben Glass [00:05:14]:

20 years ago, I discovered Dan Kennedy, and Dan taught me. And he'll be speaking at our summit this fall. Your List is the most important thing. Who are the people who know you, like you and trust you and what story can they tell about you and the story. Darren isn't necessarily best lawyer or lawyer who does this. The story is the story. The Ben story. Like dad to nine, marathoner, cross crossfit athlete, soccer referee, all those sort of things.

Ben Glass [00:05:40]:

And so even Today, you know, 42 years in, I still keep my personal private dream 100 list of lawyers. Yeah, lawyers and other people who I know send me cases, who I pay attention to them, they pay attention to me. And I am doing my very best, Aaron, to make sure that every single month I something physical. It might be a newsletter. It's. It's a letter or a report of what we're doing or maybe a book I've seen is landing on their desk. Oftentimes just a touch point. And I do that sort of.

Ben Glass [00:06:20]:

It's not outside of what we do for marketing in the firm, but it is, I would say this, it is. In addition to all of the great SEO work that we have done for us, all of the great sort of branding that we have done for us, we spend very little money on advertising per se at Benglass Law. We invest a lot in our team. We invest a lot in making the customer journey, the client journey extraordinary. But I still have my list and people know where it is. But I'm making sure that my list is well taken care of.

Darren Wurz [00:06:53]:

Where did you get that idea of the dream 100? I'm curious because I read a similar idea in the book how to Get a Meeting with Anybody by Stu Heinecke.

Ben Glass [00:07:04]:

Yeah, well, for me that came from Russell Brunson and the Click Funnels world. And his, his concept is, you know, decide who you want to serve. In that case, it's decide who my great referral sources are and let's go after them. So one of the things. So for those who don't know, my practice area is long term disability insurance claims. A lot of those are under erisa. So it gives us sort of a national footprint. And we know, for example that Social Security disability attorneys, workers, comp attorneys have our future clients.

Ben Glass [00:07:41]:

Right. They're serving them in one way, but many of them have our future clients. So it's very deliberately, Darren, researching to see who looks like, even if I don't know you, do you look like my avatar referral source if true. Great. I'm going to send you a letter. You know, a letter in the form of we recently updated. It's like, yeah, you know, there's Two kinds of lawyers. Those who take a case that I do and dabble in it, and those who refer them to us and get a check at the end of the day for that referral.

Ben Glass [00:08:13]:

So. So that's where I got the idea from. And the. But the mindset part is physical, real.

Darren Wurz [00:08:21]:

Yeah.

Ben Glass [00:08:22]:

And as. As best we can. Monthly. So everyone gets our firm newsletter. So that's easy to fulfill. But I'm also looking how can I touch those people? And I keep notes. Very simple kind of spreadsheet CRM. It's nothing fancy, but I do have behind my.

Ben Glass [00:08:39]:

My office desk a stack of note cards and a. I've published a number of books as you know. And so I'll oftentimes because I know what books I've already sent you and I'll say, oh, here's something new I haven't sent to Darren. Boom. So that's. That's the thing now. Problem is it's work. Got to pay attention.

Ben Glass [00:08:59]:

It's not sexy either. It's not. It's not sexy at all.

Darren Wurz [00:09:03]:

But it works. It's not automated. You can't just click a button and it's done necessarily right.

Ben Glass [00:09:10]:

Right. Yes.

Darren Wurz [00:09:11]:

Yeah. But it's a good tactic. And so many I've heard, I've been hearing a lot about more of that trying to have that personal connection with people. And I think that is kind of thing that's really going to stand out as the world gets more and more digital and more AI focused and physical Mail. Right. Like it's going to be hard to reach your inbox. It's going to be hard to reach you on the phone, but I know I can send you a package and it's going to make it to your desk.

Ben Glass [00:09:45]:

I mean, I have an executive assistant who's. One of our main jobs is to make sure that the digital stuff, only the important digital stuff reaches me. So. So there's that. You're right. The mailman, the mail. Women like they don't bring their bags aren't as big anymore. Right.

Ben Glass [00:09:58]:

So it is a way to show up and you know, for lawyers in particular, Darren, what we're looking for is again, those lawyers who have our future cases or may get that call and who can send us five cases in a year and then keeping track of that. So. And it's not to say we don't do other stuff, but we don't. We spend very little money on buying like digital advertising. Almost zero. Because the, the leads we get both in the personal injury space, Darren, and the Disability space. The leads we get from people we know are worth far more, far more than the leads we get from a generic SEO work. They find our website.

Ben Glass [00:10:39]:

So, you know, probably half the leads come from, like, the whole digital world, but 80% of the money comes from the human being who mentioned our name. That's the beginning of the chain. Yeah, but it is work, and you got to spend some time doing it and then, you know, being consistent with it.

Darren Wurz [00:10:59]:

So many people need to hear this. I was literally on a call with a client last month who's investing thousands of dollars a month in advertisements and getting like 600 leads a month and then having to hire an intake team to process these leads. And then most of the leads are garbage, and only like 3% of them are actually becoming clients. And it's like, that just seems like, you know, it seems easy, right? Digital marketing, but you can create more work for yourself.

Ben Glass [00:11:37]:

Well, what that, what your client needs to do is to, is to accurately calculate the cost per case, including the cost of, like, a lot, some cost to the time it takes Mary to talk to them for 12 minutes a day or whatever that is, and, or, and your outsourced phone answers who are answering at night, perhaps, and get to that true cost, and only then can they tell. All right, yeah, actually, this deal is good because I'm making more than I'm spending, a lot more than I'm spending. But oftentimes they'll find like, it's not worth it. And that's been our personal experience. And maybe we're just not very good at it, but we're growing, and we spend a lot of time, energy, and money in curating our relationships.

Darren Wurz [00:12:31]:

Yeah, yeah. Earlier you mentioned storytelling, and you mentioned your Ben's story. Right. How does that show up for you in your marketing? And what impact has that made?

Ben Glass [00:12:46]:

Two ways, Jaron. I think one of them is every lawyer in the sort of PI space. Right. It publishes the case results. I got a big verdict with a big number. We like to tell the story. And I'm going to give you a source and your listeners a source. They should go read the or go follow the Institute for justice.

Ben Glass [00:13:08]:

So it's ij.org they're a public interest law firm. They do a lot of cool work on behalf of entrepreneurs fighting against government regulation. Stuff that you, you would love this stuff. Their storytelling, even when they lose a case, their storytelling is fabulous. I, I makes me want to write a check, like, every time I get their newsletter. And so prospects want to know. It doesn't tell them a lot. If they visit 10 websites and you have $5 million verdict, $7 million, that's not their case.

Ben Glass [00:13:40]:

But if they find stories that are about experience that are similar to theirs, boom. So there's that, and then there's the story of Ben. Most people, Darren, they do not need a personal injury lawyer. They do not need a disability lawyer today, like most people don't. Right. No reason to remember any personal injury lawyer. But the story of dad to nine, who you can call and trust if you have a legal problem. He.

Ben Glass [00:14:05]:

His Rolodex is big. He will help get you to the right person. He will often times solve your problem because he's just been in the world for a long time and he's an old guy and he happens to know a lot of law and practical tips for a living that is memorable.

Darren Wurz [00:14:22]:

Yeah.

Ben Glass [00:14:23]:

And human nature is that if people. If other people can tell that story. I'm not really sure what Ben does, but he's really cool. He's at my gym. He referees soccer games. And I think you could just call him. That's what we want because it grows my list. It grows our trust factor in the community.

Ben Glass [00:14:43]:

It's fun to do. And lawyers, Darren, it's amazing how shy I feel. Put up these big giant billboards with their pictures on them. They're oftentimes shy about telling their story. Like, what's your backstory? What's your family look like? What are your relationships? And. And these are things that are memorable.

Darren Wurz [00:15:05]:

It also humanizes you. It. It gives you persp. You know, it helps you relate to people. Helps people relate to you. And. And. And all of that good stuff.

Darren Wurz [00:15:15]:

Yeah.

Ben Glass [00:15:15]:

People. Lawyers forget how scary we are. Because. Yeah, if you need a lawyer, it's probably the first time in your life. It probably is. Something happened unexpectedly. You got arrested. Your.

Ben Glass [00:15:26]:

Your spouse cheats on you and you find out. Right. You get hurt in a car accident. We forget that we are very scary. Like. And so the. The. The more we can do to reduce the friction there to get someone to call you and, you know, we're calling a really happy place with a great customer service systems and people who, you know.

Darren Wurz [00:15:49]:

Yeah.

Ben Glass [00:15:50]:

Really believe the mission that we're on.

Darren Wurz [00:15:52]:

That this happens. Yeah, this happens. In the medical world, it's called white coat syndrome. People are. People often don't tell their doctors everything that their doctors need to know because they're afraid. They're intimidated. So I imagine.

Ben Glass [00:16:07]:

Yeah.

Darren Wurz [00:16:08]:

With. With lawyers, probably the same phenomenon exists.

Ben Glass [00:16:13]:

100. Like, because, you know, if you just go on TV, like, we're big and bad and we cheat, we lie and we steal, and we. You know the mantra, right? So we want to be the ones that people walk into our office and they go, and you've been in our offices, like, wow, what is this place? Really? It doesn't look like a law office.

Darren Wurz [00:16:33]:

Yeah. Very cool. So one of the things that, Ben, you're known for is your abundance mindset. And you kind of. You mentioned this a little bit in your referral approach is to send something, send a book, so you're giving value to your potential referral sources. So I just want to talk about that for a minute. How does it giving value without expectation help your business to grow?

Ben Glass [00:16:57]:

Well, first, it's fun to do. When you have been in the world a long time and know a lot of things, there's just a lot of people that haven't had your experiences. So it is. For me, Darren, it is fun to lead someone to discovery. So if you and I were having a question just about building your own business, you know, and I said something that sparked an idea for you, and you go, oh, wow, that's cool. Let me go do these three things. That's. That's fun for me.

Ben Glass [00:17:22]:

The other is. It's. It. It is a. It is. It helps you stand out.

Darren Wurz [00:17:28]:

Yeah.

Ben Glass [00:17:28]:

Because so few people are actually engaged in anything outside of themselves that you stand out. And it can be the simplest thing. You know, I run this program in our area. Well, it's NASA. It's called Lunch with Ben lunchwith ben.com. go to it. You, your listeners, can go and read it. You can get an hour with me at lunch over video.

Ben Glass [00:17:51]:

And the cost is you're just going to make sure the sandwich or the salad shows up at my desk before we start. So I'm going to eat lunch anyway. I love having interesting conversations like we're having here. It's a way to. To give. But I hear interesting stories, I meet interesting people, and they remember that because guess what? They're. Even though I've been telling lawyers about this program for, like four years, I don't know anybody else that's started it.

Darren Wurz [00:18:17]:

Yeah, that's cool. And thank you for bringing that up because that's actually how we met initially back in. I think it was either 2020 or 2021 during the pandemic. I don't know if you had this program officially at that point or not, but I reached out and asked if we could do a virtual lunch.

Ben Glass [00:18:36]:

Maybe you gave me the idea, maybe I should credit, maybe, I don't know the idea for this. Yes, well, but, but the, the teaching point would be is that you reach out. So here's another thing that's really cool about successful people is that they tend to like to share. And so if someone will. If you are a lawyer or any business person and you're thinking, well I would, I have some questions to answer. And I. And you know, Darren's got more experience than I do and you know, maybe Darren's got some answers. Darren.

Ben Glass [00:19:08]:

And people like you, people like me and many of our friends will do that. Now what do we want? We want you to show up with a notebook. We want you to show up having done some homework yourself to be prepared. And we would love to hear the feedback and the success story after you go and do something. So don't show up empty handed. I get to talk to high schoolers, to retirees in this program and I do it mainly for my own enjoyment. Right. Because I get to hear and meet, hear the stories and meet the people that I never would have run across in my life.

Darren Wurz [00:19:43]:

Absolutely. So you know, along that line, like what are, I'm curious because you've done a lot of different things over the years. What are some like really scrappy creative marketing approaches that, that have ended up working really well?

Ben Glass [00:20:01]:

You know, I think the whole. So a being in the world of direct mail number two, I was one of the first, if not the first to really. And I give credit to Kennedy so start to write books that position me as the author. So the very first book. It looks very crude now, but you know, the ultimate guide to Car Accident cases in Virginia. And back in the day it was a little harder than it is today to go and write a book and people. But it's interesting because even lawyers will say like, oh wow, you're an author. Like it's not that hard to do that.

Ben Glass [00:20:34]:

I don't think there's a lot of guys and gals who can help you get it done. But book writing. So now I probably got 20 books so I can go and pick from a pile and send it to you. So that's work that makes you. That makes you very memorable. Yeah, you know, I just trying to think of some of the other things. I love to, to speak, I love to get in front of people. We have, you have seen our training center here at the office.

Ben Glass [00:20:58]:

So when we built the office out, we have a training center now. What do we do with that? Well, we run our own seminars. Number One. But also we open it to the community. So you've got scouting group, referee group. We have the knitting ladies and the book club. The book club comes here and so they get to experience Benglass Law. They don't have a case now, but they're like, yeah, these guys aren't scary.

Ben Glass [00:21:22]:

So these are the, you know, a lot of the grassroots things. It. The other thing I would. I would say scrappy is when you're doing a sponsorship, because we all get asked, sponsor the little league team, whatever.

Darren Wurz [00:21:33]:

Yeah.

Ben Glass [00:21:34]:

Think of the nine or ten things you can do to really leverage that. Most people, you send a check in, you get your name on a T shirt, and nothing ever happens with it. Well, you know, there's a lot. There's. There's things you could do to embed yourself a little bit into that community. Get the pictures. I always say, hey, and I'm going to chance to talk to the parents because I'm a big. Sportsmanship in sport.

Ben Glass [00:21:57]:

Sportsmanships in youth sports. Guy. We're running. We're starting a scholarship program this fall. We're getting. We have announced it semi, but it's not up on the website. But it's a referee and it's a scholarship for teenage referees and umpires who are going off to college. And it'll be an essay on leadership.

Ben Glass [00:22:17]:

I haven't seen anything. A lot of law firms have scholarships. That's my passion. As you probably know, for 51 years, I've refereed soccer teams, youth and adult and high school games.

Darren Wurz [00:22:27]:

Yeah.

Ben Glass [00:22:27]:

And so that's my passion. And so that's. Another point is like, take something you're already passionate about and ask yourself, how can I add value to the group? Not just send them a check. How can I add value? How can I promote them? Because when you promote somebody else, they're going to link back to you. They are just. It's human nature to want to reciprocate when you have done something first. And I would tell people that haven't tried this, it's just intoxicatingly fun. I mean, because nobody else is doing it.

Ben Glass [00:22:59]:

And so, you know, they think that you're maybe think that you're something special, but they certainly appreciate that. And so few people, Darren. Will. Will go out of their way to get. Go first.

Darren Wurz [00:23:10]:

Yeah, yeah. Great ideas. I'm reading a book right now called Influence. And one of the levers of influence is the law of reciprocation. And it's giving something without the expectation of any kind of return makes them 100 times more likely to be willing to do something for you. And oftentimes people reciprocate more than what you did. Right. It's a weird part of human nature.

Darren Wurz [00:23:39]:

We don't want to feel like we owe somebody. Somebody something.

Ben Glass [00:23:43]:

That's right. But, you know, again, you stand out because there's so few people. So few people that will do it. It's always like, what's in it for me? Well, what's in it for me is, like, the energy you get by.

Darren Wurz [00:23:54]:

Yeah.

Ben Glass [00:23:55]:

Reaching out. Especially when it's something that's easy for you because. Because of your coaching. Right. You may see something that's drop dead easy. That someone is just. They're blind to. Some lawyer or law firm is blind to.

Ben Glass [00:24:08]:

And you're like, tweak this thing, tweak this thing. And they're like, wow, never thought about. And it was easy for you.

Darren Wurz [00:24:15]:

Right, Right. So let's. I've got a few more questions to ask you here. You mentioned you have a book club that meets in your space, which is really cool. So. And we have a book club at the Lawyer Millionaire as well for law firm owners who want to join. So I always ask all my guests, what is a book that you're reading right now or perhaps one of your favorites that has really changed your thinking?

Ben Glass [00:24:39]:

Well, one of my favorites that changed my whole life was Atlas Shrugged and Understanding Iran. And, you know, there are people have differing views on Iran. Most people who have a negative view have never studied anything, never read anything, and can't quote anything, and won't come on my podcast to debate me about it. But, but her philosophy was, you have this one life to live. You have to be good first. Like, you have to be mentally, financially, emotionally healthy. Or else you can't. You can't be at your best.

Ben Glass [00:25:12]:

You can't give your best, your clients. So that's what I've translated that into. And the teachings we do at Great Legal Marketing, which is, you got to be good for yourself and your family first, and then you can be great. It will help you to be great for your clients. The other thing that I think that a mantra sort of that we live by here is when Brian and I were thinking, you know, why are we running a personal injury disability firm? And what do most lawyers say? You know, to get you all the money you deserve and kick the insurance company's butt and all that stuff. We're like, okay, that's cool. But what we're really good at is helping you thrive. And so if the owners Thrive and in particular, if the team that we bring into work on Monday is thriving and feels like they're doing meaningful work with people they like and it's financially good for them and their clients will be well served.

Ben Glass [00:26:02]:

And so we just had a deputy sheriff came in today. He was in the building and it was amazing because, because he walks by the door, we give him a tour. Right. Just said hey, come on in. We got snacks. You've seen our, our snack set up, our kitchen set up. Like now we have this huge fan and he, I think every time he's in the building serving somebody for their, you know, subpoena for medical records, he's going to drop by. All right.

Ben Glass [00:26:30]:

And so but you know, getting back to our point, we wanted to do something to make his day better. That culture is embedded in our law firm. So starting with Atlas Shrugged, you know, marketing specific books Story brand is was a great book for us. Like how do you differentiate yourself in the market? Of course all of Dan Kennedy's no BS series including you know, I'll self pitch but the fourth edition of the no BS Time Management for Entrepreneurs that he and I co authored like that was fun project to do. And that book, the first edition of Time Management changed my life because I started to. Oh you mean I don't have to like answer the phone every time it rings? I could, I can force you to have a pre planned appointment so that we're both ready for the call.

Darren Wurz [00:27:20]:

Yeah.

Ben Glass [00:27:21]:

So things like that have been instrumental and I'm a huge student of books and audiobooks but I read a lot of real books. Paper.

Darren Wurz [00:27:30]:

Yeah, those are some great ones. Yeah. Storybrand. I really enjoyed that book as well. And right now in the book club we're reading Buy Back youk Time by Dan Martell which is a classic. Has become a classic.

Ben Glass [00:27:45]:

Well, exactly right. And it's, that's all about like gee, let's pause and take a time out and figure out like what' the what are we trying to do? When they hire a lawyer, they're hiring my expertise in strategic thinking about their case or their opportunity. They hire you strategic thinking about finances and financial management and a plan. All right, well the more time that you can spend thinking about that stuff a that's what you like to do, right? You and, and the less time you can, you can spend doing stuff that anybody could do. Right. Sending a bazillion emails or whatever. Like then the better off Darren Wirz is going to be, the better off your clients are going to be.

Darren Wurz [00:28:27]:

Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. That that really was instrumental for me in, in growing my business. I read that before I hired my first VA that was the inspiration to hire a virtual assistant and then just keep going from there, which was really, really cool. One last question for you, Ben. Since we're a financial show here, I want to do our money mythbuster segment. So what's a myth about money that maybe you believed when you were younger but now see differently?

Ben Glass [00:29:00]:

That's a great question. So, you know, I think I've always been a saver and I have, you know, I'm to that point in my career where if I didn't work another day, I would be fine. And I think that the thing is, the myth for me is holding on to money and not being generous, not be willing to be generous. And what I have found is the more and I have this whole sort of mental strategy, Darren, of taking money, cash, putting it in my wallet, and that is not my money anymore. It is for the people who serve me. And so I'm, I'm known. And then this is really cool. I'll tell you something cool.

Ben Glass [00:29:50]:

But I'm known for over tipping and making people's day. Great. And so, you know, I thought you had to hoard it all. Now here's what's really cool. I've got nine kids, as you know, and I watch my kids, my youngest 20 somethings, tipping $20 cash on a $15 purchase. And I say, wow, that's really cool. And it's a little thing, you know, in the whole big world. But that server, like, again, what are we talking about standing out? Nobody else is treating that server and asking he or she, hey, what's your name? Are you a student too? Like, tell me a little bit about your life.

Ben Glass [00:30:32]:

My kids have learned to do that because they're modeling that. So that's cool. I was raised neither rich nor poor, but I, I've learned a lot about the power of being generous with your time and your. And your money. And that's great. Making money and making a lot of money is good because there is power in how you can change the world.

Darren Wurz [00:30:57]:

Definitely. Thank you so much for that, Ben. Well, Ben, it's been great having you on the show. Thanks so much for joining us.

Ben Glass [00:31:03]:

It's always fun to talk to you, Darren. And have a safe trip. Have a safe trip to Tennessee. I hope you don't run into any tornadoes.

Darren Wurz [00:31:11]:

Appreciate it.

Ben Glass [00:31:12]:

Yes, sir.

Darren Wurz [00:31:14]:

All right. A big thank you to Ben Glass for joining us today and sharing his wisdom. You can learn more about Ben at his work. Check the show notes for the links to his books and his Lunch with Ben program. Here's my challenge to you. Start building your own Dream 100 list. Commit to reaching out personally to just one person this week. No automation, just real human touch.

Darren Wurz [00:31:39]:

If you want to build true, lasting wealth through your law firm, it's not about chasing every shiny marketing trend. It's about building trust, being memorable, and creating meaningful relationships that turn into opportunity. And that's exactly the kind of long term thinking we help law firm owners develop through business and financial planning. To learn more about how we help law firm owners grow their wealth and scale their firms, Visit us at lawyermillionaire.com where you can download the first chapter of my book, the Lawyer Millionaire for free. And don't forget, you're invited to join our book club. It's a powerful way to learn, connect, grow. Check the show notes for the link. Who is the Lawyer Millionaire? It's you, my friend.

Darren Wurz [00:32:28]:

Own it and live it. I'm your host, Darren Wurz. Thanks for joining me. See you next time.

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