AI-Powered Lawyering: How Jonathan Lomurro is Reinventing the Modern Law Firm (Ep. 115)
With technology evolving at breakneck speed, law firm owners face a crucial choice: embrace the power of artificial intelligence, or risk being left behind. In this episode of The Lawyer Millionaire Podcast, host Darren Wurz sits down with Jonathan Lomurro, nationally recognized trial attorney at Lomurro Law, to discuss how AI can create a competitive edge, promote efficiency, and drive long-term firm profitability. If you’re determined to scale your law firm and secure its financial future, these insights are for you.
Why AI is Essential for Law Firm Owners
Jonathan makes a bold but realistic prediction: law firms that ignore AI today will face a steep uphill battle in just a few years. Instead of scrambling to catch up, forward-thinking firm leaders are integrating AI as they grow—an approach that strengthens their foundations, streamlines processes, and future-proofs their practices.
But why does hesitation linger in the legal profession? According to Jonathan, lawyers are naturally cautious, but staying stuck in the past will soon be the riskier move. The firms that are experimenting, innovating, and learning how AI fits into their business models are gaining massive advantages in efficiency, clarity, and positioning.
AI in Action: Real Tools, Real Results
Jonathan doesn’t just talk about AI—he uses it daily to modernize litigation and accelerate business results. Here are some key takeaways from his experience:
Custom AI Bots: Jonathan has developed AI “bots” trained to think and write like real judges, appellate panels, and even himself. This helps draft briefs and anticipate different perspectives, giving the firm an edge in legal strategy and client service.
Streamlined Admin Work: With tools like Plaud (for instant, secure transcriptions) and Anytime AI (for processing large case files securely), routine office tasks no longer eat up hours of staff time. This allows highly skilled professionals to focus where they add the most value—on case strategy and client relationships.
Enhanced Legal Writing: Jonathan uses AI to “test arguments” against various viewpoints, challenge his own assumptions, and enhance the clarity and persuasion of his legal briefs. AI acts as a critical thinking partner, not just a typing tool.
Key Tools Recommended by Jonathan Lomurro
Plaud: Smartphone app for fast, HIPAA-compliant transcriptions—perfect for on-the-go lawyers.
Anytime AI: Processes thousands of pages of case files securely, overcoming the page limits of many standard AI models.
NEOS: Case management software with integrated AI summarization—cuts hours off document preparation and intake.
ChatGPT, Claude, Google’s AI, Poe: Each offers unique strengths in drafting, research, and language analysis.
Sora (video creation): Enhances presentations and client communications with streamlined, AI-powered video.
Safeguarding Client Data: Ethics and Compliance
As your firm adopts AI, protecting client confidentiality must remain front and center. Jonathan stresses the importance of understanding where and how your data is processed. For example, some AI tools may feed your input back into global language models, unless privacy settings are adjusted. It's critical to choose platforms with robust security, review compliance thoroughly, and train staff accordingly—just as you'd screen any tool involved in your financial planning or casework.
Driving Efficiency, Increasing Profitability
The bottom line? AI boosts efficiency and staff satisfaction, resulting in better profitability. As Jonathan explains, automating form generation and repetitive data entry not only saves time but also frees up your team to work on higher-value activities. Happier staff, more productive workflows, and increased client capacity all translate into a healthier bottom line for the modern firm.
Looking Ahead: Growth Through Strategic Innovation
Jonathan’s long-term vision focuses on excellence, collaboration, and thoughtful integration of new tools—not just for technology’s sake, but to amplify what makes his firm great. He encourages law firm owners to constantly evaluate which innovations will truly serve their clients and business best.
Key Takeaway for Law Firm Leaders:
Law is changing, and innovation is no longer optional. The firms who view AI as a strategic partner—using it to challenge assumptions, automate the mundane, and relentlessly improve—will be the ones who win both today and in the future.
If you want your practice to be more than just a job—and instead, a wealth-building asset—now is the time to act. Start by experimenting with one new AI-powered tool this week. Train it, test it, and use it to advance both your client service and your business planning.
Resources:
Book: Damages by Barry Werth
Book: Resonate: Present Visual Stories that Transform Audiences by Nancy Duarte
Connect with Darren Wurz:
Connect with Jonathan Lomurro:
Linkedin: Jonathan Lomurro
Lomurro Law
Transcription:
Darren Wurz [00:00:00]:
He's created bots based on judges, appellate panels, and even himself. Welcome to the Lawyer Millionaire. Helping law firm owners scale profitably escape the daily grind and turn their firms into wealth building assets. What if your biggest competitive advantage wasn't another hire, but the smart use of AI as legal tech accelerates, law firm owners who embrace AI are gaining massive efficiency, clarity, and edge. Meanwhile, those resisting may soon be left behind. Today's guest is Jonathan Lemuro, a nationally recognized trial attorney and managing partner at Lomurro Law. He's a true legal innovator, using AI to modernize litigation, grow his firm, and stay far ahead of the curve.
Darren Wurz [00:00:45]:
All right, Jonathan, I am so excited to be here with you today after we met at Legal Week. I really enjoyed your panel and all the great ideas that you had around AI and stuff like that. So great to have you here.
Jonathan Lomurro [00:00:59]:
Pleasure's all mine. It was nice meeting you as well. Looking in the audience and seeing a familiar face is always useful.
Darren Wurz [00:01:05]:
Yeah, yeah, definitely. Well, let's jump right in. You know, AI is. It's coming. It's coming fast, right?
Jonathan Lomurro [00:01:14]:
I think it's here.
Darren Wurz [00:01:15]:
It's here, yeah. And it's expanding. What does it look like in five years? Do you think that law firms that don't connect, get on AI now and start learning about it are going to be left behind?
Jonathan Lomurro [00:01:30]:
Without a doubt. The. The reason is if you don't understand the building blocks and how something is being transformed, it's going to be harder to catch up than to learn as it grows. People always talk about when, you know, the people pre technology can never grasp it or always have a block on it. It's going to be the same thing with artificial intelligence and its usage, appropriately and effectively.
Darren Wurz [00:01:52]:
Yeah, absolutely.
Darren Wurz [00:01:53]:
Why do you think lawyers are still.
Darren Wurz [00:01:56]:
Kind of, for the most part, hesitant to use AI?
Jonathan Lomurro [00:02:02]:
Lawyers are creatures of the past. We study past precedent, past law, past cases. I mean, we live looking at those before us to learn on how to be good lawyers. Very few of us look to how we are going to be great lawyers, and that is the hesitancy within is change is not adopted by either the judiciary or lawyers quickly. So we have to be cautious, protected, and we represent people in the most dire of scenarios. So we have to make sure that we are perfect at what we do. But practice makes perfect and education makes perfect.
Darren Wurz [00:02:42]:
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. The. In every wave of technology, you have these different groups. You've got the early adopters. I forget the names of the other ones, but yeah, the early adopters. Those are the Ones who end up, I mean, look at the Internet, right? And the people who were the first to jump on, you know, like video and like Facebook. Facebook is an example of an early adopter. Like Mark Zuckerberg was an early adopter of that technology and look what it did for him.
Jonathan Lomurro [00:03:13]:
Right. It was pluses and negatives. The early adopting blindly is a failure. So the first lawyers that blindly adopted AI went and submitted hallucinated case law to a court without checking it, resulting in severe penalties and embarrassment, which then caused every other lawyer to be like, I'm not going there because I'm not going to be that next person who's ruined. But don't worry. 42 different firms have been sanctioned or kicked out of cases for inappropriately utilizing something.
Darren Wurz [00:03:44]:
Yeah.
Jonathan Lomurro [00:03:45]:
Incorrectly. And that's really user error, not computer error. And that is important to know.
Darren Wurz [00:03:54]:
Yeah, definitely. And you know, you've got to figure out how to use it effectively. One of the things that I was really fascinated by on your panel, you, you talked about how the judiciary is using AI. You know, there's all this, you know, the judiciary is concerned about how lawyers are using AI, but they're using it also. Tell us a little bit about that.
Jonathan Lomurro [00:04:17]:
Yep, that was a little scary for me. So. But they have really jumped on and I think it's because of just sheer volume and lack of judicial resources. So they have. There's not enough judges, they're not paid enough, and there's not enough staff or training. So they can't get to the amount of case cases that are before them or motion practices. They're trying to find a way to quickly summarize the paperwork and do a better job at what they do without letting people sit for years on end waiting for a decision. So the judiciary in New Jersey has already built its own AI platform to utilize to look at different cases and different paperwork that you submit to create.
Jonathan Lomurro [00:05:00]:
Create summaries and advanced results on the cases. Now that's scary because what did they use as the background data sets? Who put that information in? Lawyers can't access it. So how do we test it and bug it out? One of the best things about being an early adopter is bugging out the systems before you use them to make sure that they are appropriately providing non hallucinations and correct data sets. So. But they want it, and I understand the necessity in doing it to get a quicker breakdown of what people's positions are. As a lawyer, that scares me to death because you're sitting here thinking you're writing persuasively and arguing your point in a manner utilizing every word specifically. And a summary created by a computer would negate out that persuasive technology and argument and make it a black letter position paper.
Darren Wurz [00:05:54]:
Yeah, yeah, interesting. Did you hear about how Mark Cuban has his own AI now that's like, thinks like him. So it's like you can ask Mark Cuban questions. You just ask his AI questions and it can give you information as if you're talking to Mark Cuban.
Jonathan Lomurro [00:06:13]:
I'm not going to lie, I've created quite a few bots based on people such as judges, appellate panels, myself to then start creating a back and forth that could expand my positioning, such as writing. I don't want the bot to write like a bot. I want, I want it to write like me and my style and my design.
Darren Wurz [00:06:35]:
So that's really next level thinking about AI.
Jonathan Lomurro [00:06:38]:
Right.
Darren Wurz [00:06:38]:
And rather than just using it like a search engine or like a, you know, write this article for me. How can I use it as a strategic partner to help me in my actual work?
Darren Wurz [00:06:49]:
You know, I was thinking about this.
Darren Wurz [00:06:50]:
The other day like a ChatGPT could be my, literally be my therapist. Like I could sit down and be like, hey ChatGPT, here's what's going on today. Help me understand, you know, why my partner is upset or you know.
Jonathan Lomurro [00:07:04]:
You're 100% Correct. They've already started building platforms like that to provide a safe haven for communication of things you might not feel comfortable talking to somebody else about. So there is that benefit. And using as an assistant, I always tell everybody, look, look, AI can speed certain things up, but you can't rely on it to be the final product. It's easier to proofread than it is to generate. And so when you take it and can work with it to make you better, then you're using it success successfully. If you're trying to replace yourself, then you're going to fail and it's may actually end up replacing you with somebody that is using it appropriately.
Darren Wurz [00:07:41]:
Yeah, you know, maybe we're just training all of our robot replacements.
Jonathan Lomurro [00:07:47]:
Please and thank you. Right.
Darren Wurz [00:07:50]:
But no, I mean you need to be using it every day. And now, now chatgpt, you can, you can literally just talk to it and it will talk to you because the more you do that, the more it learns about you and the more it can help you. And I saw a really interesting LinkedIn post. One of my connections, Elise Buie, she put this out there as a post, she said, you know, go to LinkedIn, go to chat, ask it. If you've been using it a lot, what are my biggest blind spots?
Jonathan Lomurro [00:08:22]:
That's clever.
Darren Wurz [00:08:23]:
And I did it and it was like, spot on. And I'm like, oh, my goodness, this is so good. This is like, great information.
Jonathan Lomurro [00:08:32]:
So one of the first things when I started lecturing on AI back in 22 was telling people it's the perfect opportunity to take the blinders off, because you start to believe, I have a case for five years. I know that case upside down, but I know it the way that I've seen it and believed in it. So challenge my position. Hey, give me something that would attack what my reasoning is and understanding is. That's a great asset.
Darren Wurz [00:08:57]:
Yeah. And I think you have to do that because it's so easy for to treat ChatGPT just like a yes man. Like, if you're not asking it the right questions, if you're just going to and be like, hey, what do you think about this? It generally is going to agree with you. Like, yeah, yeah, that sounds like a great idea. You gotta really ask it. Like, give me pros and cons, Tell me why this is a bad idea. Like, argue against this. Give me the negative feedback as well as the positive.
Jonathan Lomurro [00:09:21]:
Well, you nailed it. It was built as a chatbot. It wasn't built as an answer. It wasn't built as anything. It's our job to then give it the role. So one of the biggest prompt engineering issues is that people never assign a role to the AI platform they're utilizing. And by not doing that, you're leaving it to make up its own understanding of what it thinks you want. And I would prefer it to be a challenging mindset or something that could expand my horizons.
Darren Wurz [00:09:48]:
Yeah, absolutely. Well, before we go any further, John, tell our audience a little bit about who you are. You're a respected trial attorney, you run a law firm. You've been very involved in the intersection of technology and law. Give us a little bit of information about who you are.
Jonathan Lomurro [00:10:04]:
Sure. I've been practicing law for longer than I want to say out loud, and I am the second generation. I work with my father, my brother, my sister, and 23 other attorneys out of New Jersey, but we practice all over. I. I focus on medical malpractice, litigation, trial law, which has a. Its own embracing of technological advantage. So I, as a younger man, used to want to be a computer programmer, and then they made me do calc 5 and I said, no, I'll be a lawyer. So that transition was a lot easier.
Jonathan Lomurro [00:10:35]:
But when I found out that all of the hospital systems are based on a SQL database structure which where I could export information and find out what was manipulated and changed. I started to integrate that knowledge set and do my own inspections and skip over hiring experts and just become the person that knows these systems the best. Which resulted in me starting to write books on technology and practice of law, technology and persuasion, technology and presentation, and has really just taken off. And since I started, similar to every other lawyer, thinking you have to mimic those that came before you. I was never really the lawyer I've become until I said, hold up, I'm going to be myself, not what my father is, not who my brother is, not the greats that came before me. I can learn from all of them, integrate the best and make it better. Similar to AI in that you could learn things from the past, but chat's only as good as the data that's put in, the information that's provided. You have to get it to expand your horizons to become stronger.
Jonathan Lomurro [00:11:38]:
So it's just taken off. I am trying great cases. I'm meeting amazing people such as yourself and learning more about how to continue to expand my knowledge and talents.
Darren Wurz [00:11:51]:
Yeah, yeah, fantastic. Well, that's really cool because, you know, my story is, is somewhat similar. My dad was a financial advisor and then I kind of followed in his footsteps. I was a teacher. I taught high school science for five years, but got burned out with that and needed something a little bit different. Hats off to the teachers out there. You all do amazing. We're gonna have a lot of great friends who are.
Darren Wurz [00:12:17]:
Who are still in education. But it was great.
Jonathan Lomurro [00:12:21]:
My father went to history teacher first. I consider lawyering teaching. I go around to different colleges, different law schools and obviously go on the lecture circuit for all lawyers to teach.
Darren Wurz [00:12:34]:
Yeah, you know, there's a lot of. There's a lot of similar skills between law and teaching and financial planning, professional services when you're working with people. But when I came on, we didn't have a website like, so that was, that was the starting point. Right. It was, you know, getting technology to that level. I'm curious for you, in your business, you know, what was that transition like? Is your dad still working in the practice? How was it coming into a family business?
Jonathan Lomurro [00:13:07]:
I think I started when I was eight. So, I mean, I've held every position from the person who ran the mail to the courthouse through equity partner. So to do that transition, it's actually a great way to build a business because I know the ins and outs of every position I've Answered the phones. I've done the accounting, and I built the first website back, but to say 94, 95 for the firm. And then I worked on trying to integrate them into a paperless office. I want to say late 90s, remember.
Darren Wurz [00:13:37]:
When we did that?
Jonathan Lomurro [00:13:39]:
And so those. It's always been a battle, but I didn't realize I was trying to advance the practice. I was just having fun and trying to make the firm work better, and that was pretty neat. And the opportunity for my father to allow me to expand into those roles, which was amazing on his mindset, to start the firmness himself and build to the largest in our county by just by sheer knowledge of understanding that others can provide opportunities that he may not be aware of on his own. So when I got into it, I just said, all right, let's keep going.
Darren Wurz [00:14:15]:
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And now, I mean, I can't imagine having a business without a website. Right. In today's world, that's your mark of credibility. You know, people go there to make sure you're real.
Jonathan Lomurro [00:14:30]:
It's not just a website. It's social media, it's online, it's podcasts, it's books, it's pro publications. It's everything. You have to exist and be proud of who you are and what you do.
Darren Wurz [00:14:39]:
100%. What's kind of the size of the firm at this point?
Jonathan Lomurro [00:14:44]:
We have about, right now about 20 lawyers and 50 plus employees total.
Darren Wurz [00:14:50]:
Okay. Has that grown much over? Has it been pretty steady in terms of size, or has it grown rapidly? Yes.
Jonathan Lomurro [00:14:56]:
So we actually had gotten up to 50 lawyers and made a strategic decision to split the firm in two. They're actually the building over. And because of practice areas to hone in on what we were the best at versus what they're the best at, which because we were doing everything, you couldn't grow effectively. If you try to be a jack of all trades, you're going to fail at it miserably. So you have to then hone in. So we represent people as they represent corporations to try to get those together. It was playing two sides of the coin and not that good. So we have progressed again.
Jonathan Lomurro [00:15:30]:
We were down. We lowered to 12. We're back up to 20. And we just merged. Actually emerged last week. We brought in another firm. So I guess we're 23. So that was as of a couple days ago.
Jonathan Lomurro [00:15:43]:
Yeah.
Darren Wurz [00:15:44]:
That's incredible. Yeah. Okay. You hear that, folks? Right? The importance of knowing your target market and. And really honing in on it. Has that made a big difference for you?
Jonathan Lomurro [00:15:55]:
Tremendous one. We're happier. Less internal strife difficulties because we have. When you do both sides, you have hourly versus contingency. You have jealous, who has a credit line of X. You have to wonder who's getting more money in, more funding, who's getting marketing, who's getting publicity. A lot of personalities you have to manage, especially in a law firm. So you have to try to keep everybody happy and people that were best friends could become resentful of each other.
Jonathan Lomurro [00:16:21]:
Even though it wasn't personality changes, it was just self observation. So we had to really hone in and by doing that we've actually become closer again with those that aren't together.
Darren Wurz [00:16:34]:
Absolutely. So what's your role in the firm now? Are you kind of like in a CEO role or kind of managing the overall picture?
Jonathan Lomurro [00:16:43]:
You are very observant. So we have, we have a series of equity partners which could as you could imagine is my brother, me, my brother in law, my father. So we have that core but we also have a few other people in there and we work on a management style of unanimity. I guess we put that we work things out, we break into different teams. So we have a marketing team, we have an in office team, we have a technological team and that's how we manage. So because I will candidly tell you that I'm not the best on the corporate and structure on that. So that's it. Eric Lubin, who would be the managing partner of the finances and negotiation.
Jonathan Lomurro [00:17:20]:
Eric Yingstrom, my brother in law does the comp but when he's in equity he actually handles people. He was a mayor. He understands how to deal with the inner workings the hr. So where you would have a singular person in most firms that will dictate all decision making, we have a singular person that will dictate the idea and present it to the core five. We then meet and we determine what happens. We have obviously superseding for emergent applications to get anyone in and it works fine that way. But by having that kind of integrated approach and respect amongst everyone, I think it's made a much happier way to work. Other than my father who was just managing partner of that 50 person firm and kind of just did whatever he wanted.
Jonathan Lomurro [00:18:06]:
He knew it was better to get multiple minds.
Darren Wurz [00:18:09]:
Yeah, absolutely. I love that. What's the long term vision for your firm?
Jonathan Lomurro [00:18:16]:
That's always a secret. No, we actually like bringing in people that will have the same mindset and idea excellence. First, great work will bring great clientele and great success. And that has been a model that we've really stuck to. So we make sure we vet anyone that wants to join or come with us. But we want to continue to grow to provide the best services possible. Everybody that we meet.
Darren Wurz [00:18:43]:
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. You know, as you grow, I've seen other law practices bring on non legal professionals to help out with the administration, like a CFO or.
Jonathan Lomurro [00:18:54]:
That would be my sister. Now we also have, we have a whole management team and administrative team. We have a billing team. We have. So that is, I would say, the primary success of our firm is by not having the lawyers do things they're not supposed to be doing.
Darren Wurz [00:19:12]:
Yes. Yeah. Fantastic. Well, that's really cool. I love it. Thanks for giving us a little sneak peek there. Let's go back to AI real quick and let's talk about some of your favorite tools. What are some of your favorite tools you're using right now? I know you have a few that you really like.
Jonathan Lomurro [00:19:27]:
Yeah, I'll tell you my favorite one because it's so easy. It's on my phone. Always and forever is Plaud. Plaud. I mean, it's just a tremendous asset to be able to get your recordings, speak and have a transcription almost instantaneously in the travel and break down those items. And it's HIPAA compliant now, which is huge. The other one I use is Anytime AI. That is a big product that allows you to securely look at all your case files without page limitation because many of the AI services are limited to a buck 75, 300 depending.
Jonathan Lomurro [00:20:02]:
And this could go 10,000 pages deep and more. And I know, I think it was yesterday. OpenAI just opened up its 4.1 for the API usage, which will allow greater number of pages and information to be put into its project files to review. I don't want to mislead you and say I don't use OpenAI's ChatGPT quite frequently. I do, especially for, you know, making a action figure version of me and my family. But the different products can all be integrated in different platforms. So ChatGPT writes extremely well. It's.
Jonathan Lomurro [00:20:36]:
It is well versed on. That's basically looking at the human usage of language. It does a very good job. Whereas when you get to research, even though it has its advanced research tool, it's tremendous and searches the web, it's not as straightforward and trustworthy as say, a smaller AI program. So the reason I say Anytime is that it is a rag retrieval augmented generation system that when it gives you your answer, gives an immediate link back to verify the information. I use NEOs is my case management system. That's kind of what tracks everything that happens within our office. It has a AI summary tool so you can use that for depositions.
Jonathan Lomurro [00:21:15]:
Generation of your first version of your rogs and different productions really makes my staff happy. So that's a staff heavy AI versus the things that I use on my daily basis, which you know, are the other ones I probably would toss in. Well, but I gotta tell you, the video creation sora in chat is superb. Also, if you don't like the way that chat works, Claude is fine. Google, you know, has its versions and you could kind of play it out. Po, which is an aggregator POE provides all the AI in one page. So you can test different AI. Large language models always need to kind of throw things through that to get some different ideas on how to integrate a word choice because really I kind of use it like a thesaurus or a dictionary.
Jonathan Lomurro [00:22:05]:
Say how do I become better and how do I make my brief really sing? And to do that would be the getting 20, 30 people to look at it. And by people, I mean millions of people built into an AI platform of a large language model and tell me how to the best way to communicate. Because sometimes we have the curse of knowledge. We know too much and don't realize that others don't. And so this gives you a chance to kind of bring yourself back to reality.
Darren Wurz [00:22:31]:
Yeah.
Darren Wurz [00:22:32]:
Awesome.
Darren Wurz [00:22:32]:
Well, we'll try to find all of those and get those in the show notes for sure. Very cool. Have you seen major improvements in terms of your efficiency and firm profitability in adopting AI?
Jonathan Lomurro [00:22:46]:
100%. Yeah. When you know you have to have happy staff and some menial tasks can cause them to not want to do them even though they're necessary. So to have something immediately takes. We have, here's a great example, a long form, an intake document. I know what I need to do for every case is answer interrogatories. So our intake form has all the information I need to generate the first version of those interrogatories. Basically the staff was taking and retyping or moving and copying, pasting into a different platform.
Jonathan Lomurro [00:23:23]:
But utilizing the AI, you just click a button. It takes that long form and integrates everything into the form of the A1 and saves them what could be hours of just boring copy, paste, retype and format. So them. When my staff's happy, I'm happy. And efficiency goes up tremendously.
Darren Wurz [00:23:45]:
100%. How do we protect client information in using AI? Tell us about that.
Jonathan Lomurro [00:23:53]:
Oh, sure. So that that's been an obligation since they went with cloud and anything really technological, there's been an ethical responsibility to be up to date on first technology and also to verify that the platforms you're using are keeping your data secure. So one of the things you have to make sure is so ChatGPT, you brought it up, that can integrate your data into its main database. It wants to learn from you and expanding, but you can shut that off, you can pay some extra money, you can go in and learn how the system is being utilized. Like Microsoft Copilot, completely safe because it's built into, not putting the information into its, its general platform. Plaude originally used to take all that audio, put it through whisper technology of OpenAI to translate and get back, but it was giving all that information to the system. If you don't know what you're doing, you could be disclosing all of their client information. So you have an obligation, my personal opinion, to read through, understand what technology they're using and verify that there's enough security features that your information of your client does not disseminate into the public sphere.
Jonathan Lomurro [00:24:57]:
And there, there are. I mean, look, AI, as you said, it's growing. What's going to be in five years? Right now you can limit the information, but by limiting information to like say a rag or one of the other systems where they have an individual database, you are not getting the true power of the large language model looking at all that data because if the data doesn't go in, you don't get data response back. So it's really, when you combine the LLM and the rag, you're really taking the language, understanding and bringing it to a secure location. Not taking your secure location, bringing it to the model to get it translated, which can change the results. But you as an attorney need to understand this. And that's really hard for lawyers because they don't want to know it. They barely.
Jonathan Lomurro [00:25:43]:
My dad won't even use a mouse. I mean, he gets angry at email. That's just the way it is. So if you're going to use it though, you have an obligation to know it. And if you don't know it, you have to hire somebody that does.
Darren Wurz [00:25:54]:
Yeah, it's same, same with our business. Any technology piece we use, it's part of our compliance check. We, we have to, there's certain things we have to check. We've got to make sure it meets certain criteria for confidentiality and privacy and all of that. That good stuff. What's next for you, Jonathan? Are you gonna create your own AI software program.
Jonathan Lomurro [00:26:17]:
I'm not gonna say that I am not a part of a couple AI platforms that have approached me to join with them. One we're working on is the AI JudgeBot. One is an AI program that can take large quantities of data and find inconsistencies and, like a needle in a haystack, information and provide it back in a substantive form format for the lawyers. But I love pricing law. It just happens that pricing law is integrated into those things. I plan on being advising how to make these systems better, not just to create something new, but to make me a better attorney so I can help my clients. So my plan is to continuously learn, meet great people that will expand my knowledge base so that I can keep doing the job I'm doing and when the firm can keep growing to help others.
Darren Wurz [00:27:07]:
Fantastic. Well, Jonathan, we're coming down to the end of our time.
Darren Wurz [00:27:12]:
I want to ask you one last question.
Darren Wurz [00:27:14]:
Part of our organization, we have a book club for attorneys and law firm owners, and we read one book a quarter. Right now we're reading Shoe Dog by Phil Knight. And so I always ask my guests, you know, is there anything that you're reading right now that you're really finding interesting or maybe one of your favorites that you read in the past you want to share with our audience?
Jonathan Lomurro [00:27:37]:
I am a lawyer, so I have a bookshelf of books, not to mention all the ones I've written, so definitely dropping the digital anchor. But if I was to pick one book that I thought was, one, a good read, two, Understood the different viewpoints, it would be a book called it's out of Print. So if you find it, it's very good. Damages by Brian Held, and he is an investigative reporter that did an examination of a medical malpractice case front to back, from the viewpoint of the doctor, the patients, the lawyers, and the insurance company. And it was a fascinating undertaking to say, hey, maybe we don't see everything in the same light every time we do something. And I think that could really open people's minds up about how they're acting and how they're growing and how they're running their business, to maybe say, there is another way.
Darren Wurz [00:28:26]:
Yeah, perspective is everything. Truly.
Jonathan Lomurro [00:28:29]:
That's not Nancy Duarte in there, too. Her resonate book was solid.
Darren Wurz [00:28:34]:
Okay. Yeah, absolutely. Well, by the way, we'd love to have you in the book club if you'd like to join.
Jonathan Lomurro [00:28:41]:
I love reading.
Darren Wurz [00:28:42]:
Well, Jonathan, it's been fabulous having you on the show. Any last things you want to leave with our audience before we Go.
Jonathan Lomurro [00:28:50]:
Find what you love and stick with it.
Darren Wurz [00:28:53]:
Great advice. Great advice. Thank you, Jonathan for joining us.
Jonathan Lomurro [00:28:56]:
Pleasure's mine. All the best.
Darren Wurz [00:28:58]:
All right, a big thank you to John for joining us today. If you'd like to learn more about his work or connect with him, visit lemurolaw.com or check out the links in the show notes. Here's my takeaway. The lawyers who win in the future will be the ones who stop resisting change and start strategically leveraging it. Don't just try AI, train it, test it, treat it like a partner. Whether it's streamlining tasks or sharpening your legal arguments, the opportunity is massive. The challenge? Start experimenting this week. Remember, your law firm isn't just a job.
Darren Wurz [00:29:34]:
It's your most powerful asset. And just like you wouldn't ignore a new investment strategy, you can't ignore the tools that will define your firm's growth. Innovation isn't optional. It's how you scale, gain time, freedom, and ultimately build wealth. And that's what we're all about here at the Lawyer Millionaire Founders Network. If you got value from today's episode, do us a favor. Leave us a five star review and share this episode with a fellow law firm owner. And don't forget, you can join our Lawyer Millionaire Book Club for free@lawyermillionaire.com just click on Community at the top of the page each quarter we read, grow and connect.
Darren Wurz [00:30:16]:
Well, that's a wrap for this episode of the Lawyer Millionaire podcast. I'm your host, Darren Wurz. See you next time.